I've been away from Glock for a while but have the opportunity to buy a LNIB Glock 21 with night sights already installed. I currently have a P220 and don't really have any complaints, however, I like the extra magazine capacity of the 21 but also am a little concerned about the size of the grip. Have any of you owned both and what are your opinions? Thanks in advance,
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FIB
That's kinda strange you mention grip size. I own a 229 and 226 and I think those grips are fat as hell. I like GLOCKs much better than Sigs. IMO, Sigs are chunky, top heavy and a bit more complex than a GLOCK. Also, I've had reliability issues with the 229.
Jump on that G21, I promise you will like it.
Jump on that G21, I promise you will like it.
I own both, they are different guns. I do not carry either, but if I had to the 220 would be my choice. The 21 is just to damn big and heavy fully loaded. The 21 is used as my bed side gun becuase of the 13 round mags. The 220 sits in the closet and was shot forthe first time last month in over 5 years. I do love the 220 but all I shoot now are glocks. Not because I think they arethat much better but because I like that my night stand gun (21) operates the same as my carry gun (27), my office gun (23), and my truck gun (22). In other words I made a decision to train and practice with one type of gun all with the same mecahnism and for me this was the glock. I did not want to need my gun and forget that I was using a 1911 and foget to unlock it or not be expecting such a light trigger etc.
In a nut shell, my recomendation is get one type of gun/action etc and practice with it and don't get yourself confused with multiple guns.
In a nut shell, my recomendation is get one type of gun/action etc and practice with it and don't get yourself confused with multiple guns.
I agree 100%! However, I am one who cannot settle for just one make and style, I like variety. That's why I own several Sigs, Glocks and M&Ps. I love them all.
As to the OP, I would opt for what I can shoot best. Both the G21 and the P220 are awesome platforms but if I were forced to choose between the two, it would be the P220.
I'd say G21, out of those 2. Had one and really liked it. Also had a Sig, couldn't stand the DA/SA and loooong reset, even though I loved the grip and the quality construction.
The 220 is a great gun, don't get me wrong, but if I'm going to have an 8-rd .45, its gonna be a 1911. (Which I do have, and after trying Sigs, Glocks, and HKs, is all I have left)
My personal thinking is that the safety system should not impede operation of the firing system. On a Sig, the "safety" system is a long heavy DA pull. Long heavy DA pulls are harder to shoot accurately, especially if you're trying to do it quickly. So the safety on a Sig necessarily is a compromise against 1st shot speed and accuracy.
With a G21, thats not an issue. The first shot is the same as any other shot, not heavy, not long. The Glock passive safeties do not make proper trigger control any more difficult, unlike the Sig's passive safety.
Then there's the reset issue. I'm not sure if you've ever fired a Sig, but the trigger reset is looooong from shot to shot. That means you need to move your trigger finger alot more more, which tends to be a hindrance for accurate quick follow-ups.
Sure, some people can shoot the Sig quite well AT SPEED (sitting at the range and leisurely popping off rounds doesn't count, IMO), but not many. And those that do have usually tweaked the DA considerably with lighter mainsprings, etc, etc, and have work done to shorten the reset. Sig won't sell their Short reset system found in the Elite line to anyone except LE armorers, so you have to send it to them, shipping parts and labor end up being over $150. Or you can ship it to GGI and pay even more. I suspect these are some of the reasons that Sigs tend not to be favored with the competition crowd.
Which brings the discussion to cost. The G21 is cheaper out of the box, with higher capacity and better trigger system. If you want a better trigger system out of a Sig, then you'll either need to buy a 220 Elite, or send your gun off for work costing even more.
The G21 grip isn't that bad. My fiancé who's all of 5'4", 110 with correspondingly small hands handles it just fine. So unless your hands are even more girly small than hers, I wouldn't worry too much.:supergrin:
(disclaimer: these are my opinion that I've arrived at after extensive experience shooting all the pistols mentioned herein. They're worth exactly what you paid for them, and of course, your mileage may vary)
The 220 is a great gun, don't get me wrong, but if I'm going to have an 8-rd .45, its gonna be a 1911. (Which I do have, and after trying Sigs, Glocks, and HKs, is all I have left)
My personal thinking is that the safety system should not impede operation of the firing system. On a Sig, the "safety" system is a long heavy DA pull. Long heavy DA pulls are harder to shoot accurately, especially if you're trying to do it quickly. So the safety on a Sig necessarily is a compromise against 1st shot speed and accuracy.
With a G21, thats not an issue. The first shot is the same as any other shot, not heavy, not long. The Glock passive safeties do not make proper trigger control any more difficult, unlike the Sig's passive safety.
Then there's the reset issue. I'm not sure if you've ever fired a Sig, but the trigger reset is looooong from shot to shot. That means you need to move your trigger finger alot more more, which tends to be a hindrance for accurate quick follow-ups.
Sure, some people can shoot the Sig quite well AT SPEED (sitting at the range and leisurely popping off rounds doesn't count, IMO), but not many. And those that do have usually tweaked the DA considerably with lighter mainsprings, etc, etc, and have work done to shorten the reset. Sig won't sell their Short reset system found in the Elite line to anyone except LE armorers, so you have to send it to them, shipping parts and labor end up being over $150. Or you can ship it to GGI and pay even more. I suspect these are some of the reasons that Sigs tend not to be favored with the competition crowd.
Which brings the discussion to cost. The G21 is cheaper out of the box, with higher capacity and better trigger system. If you want a better trigger system out of a Sig, then you'll either need to buy a 220 Elite, or send your gun off for work costing even more.
The G21 grip isn't that bad. My fiancé who's all of 5'4", 110 with correspondingly small hands handles it just fine. So unless your hands are even more girly small than hers, I wouldn't worry too much.:supergrin:
(disclaimer: these are my opinion that I've arrived at after extensive experience shooting all the pistols mentioned herein. They're worth exactly what you paid for them, and of course, your mileage may vary)
The P220 is a single stack gun. You have just compared a P226 & P229 which are double stack, to the single stack P220.
As luck would have it,
I have the G21 2nd gen
G21 3rd gen
G21SF
and the
P220R DA/SA
P220R DAK
I also own:
P226
P229
They really are different guns. Let me make a list...the cons for each is noted in red. These are my negatives! Your mileage may vary.
Sig P220R
- recoil is bearable, but more noticeable with +P ammo
- a dirty P220 will have rounds FTF at the feed ramp
- gun is more accurate (than G21) in my hands
- sight system on Sigs vastly superior to Glock
- SIG sights system allow for more flexibility on adjusting POI
- less customization of parts even grips are to be changed by Sig armorer
- frame has shorter useful life versus Glock (inspection interval is same).
- Is slightly easier to conceal than G21
- as you mention, 8-10 rounds tops
- Detail strip involved
- DA/SA is easy to work with. DAK not so easy to work with...
- changing trigger pull weight not as easy with Glock
Glock21SF
- +P ammo not as punishing as with P220
- will feed more reliably when dirty
- bulkier than P220
- Higher ammo capacity
- more parts / tweaking available in the retail channel
- less accurate than a P220
- Plastic sights not duty ready, Glock night sights not as precise as SIG sights
- Glock sights offer fewer NOTICEABLE ways of changing POI
- Glock frame has longer service life than SIG P220 frame
- Detail stripping easier on a Glock, less tools required, shorter learning curve
- Single stage trigger great. Also "easier" to change trigger pull on Glock.
Other:
- Both guns are easy to field strip, inspect, clean and re-assemble.
- Either gun is a good, reliable gun to carry
- I don't carry either, so I cannot comment on the weight.
:embarassed: Thanks for the knowledge!The P220 is a single stack gun. You have just compared a P226 & P229 which are double stack, to the single stack P220.'Drew
I should have clarified my post. I'm looking at a 3rd. Gen. Model 21 not the 21 SF. I do appreciate all the responses.
The Glock 21 does have a large grip and I think needs a larger hand not to H grip it from the side. Chances are if your hand is large enough to grip it correctly your trigger finger will be long enough to reach the Glock's trigger.
The Sig 220 does have a smaller grip somewhat compromised by a longer trigger reach in DA, but not as bad as other pistols.
I have owned both and still have the Sig 220. A great carry pistol as it's thinner than the Glock 21 and a spare mag is easier for me to carry. I think to much is made of the need for lots of rounds in a pistol. Most gunfights are still around 3 rounds and while I've never seen any data to support this I wonder if you are more likely to need a spare mag for a class 3 malfunction or if during a struggle the mag is ejected than you are shooting the pistol dry or to fully load the pistol after you have shot it? How many carry pistols with lots of rounds so they don't have to reload, don't carry a fat mag because it's uncomfortable, or plan to hose down the area?
The Sig 220 does have a smaller grip somewhat compromised by a longer trigger reach in DA, but not as bad as other pistols.
I have owned both and still have the Sig 220. A great carry pistol as it's thinner than the Glock 21 and a spare mag is easier for me to carry. I think to much is made of the need for lots of rounds in a pistol. Most gunfights are still around 3 rounds and while I've never seen any data to support this I wonder if you are more likely to need a spare mag for a class 3 malfunction or if during a struggle the mag is ejected than you are shooting the pistol dry or to fully load the pistol after you have shot it? How many carry pistols with lots of rounds so they don't have to reload, don't carry a fat mag because it's uncomfortable, or plan to hose down the area?
Sig will sell SRT trigger packages to qualified Sig armorers. All the rest of us must send in the pistol to Exeter for modification. At least that was how it was explained to me.
I presently have two 220s with the SRT trigger. One is a plain jane elite, the other is a SAS gen II.
The SRT is something worth looking into, it could make a difference to folks who have a bias against DA/SA.
They won't sell the SRT kit to anyone but LE armorers now. Its been a big thing over on the sigforum as of late.
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums?a=search&reqWords=SRT+kit+LE+armorer
I talked to a number of certified armorers in the last month trying to get an SRT kit for my 226. They couldn't get Sig to sell it to them.
I don't know how to address this. A relative of mine attended the Sig Academy recently, and picked up two SRT trigger kits for my 226s. They are sitting in my safe. I have not had the opportunity to have them installed yet.
Is this a very recent change to Sig's policies?
It seems like it. It looks like their policy has been all over the board on these kits. Apparently, they used to sell them to anyone in person at the Pro Shop, but not over the phone, but even that changed within the last month or two, from what I can tell over on the sigforum.
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/230601935/m/4021044531?r=4021044531#4021044531 (among other threads)
Heck, If I could have obtained an SRT kit, I'd have kept my 226!
I bet you could sell those SRT kits in your safe for a nice profit.
THey're super easy to install, BTW. Just a sear and a safety lever.
I liked the grip on the Sig better, but the Glock offers a lot more firepower as well as myriad of easily found and afforded custom parts. I chose the 21SF with GNS as I felt it was a better all around value (being $250 less) as well as having a much better and consistent trigger out of the box. I plan on getting a custom barrel, spring, guide rod, trigger job and spare mag, and will still come in around the price of the Sig. So custom, competition Glock or stock Sig? They were both at the top of my short list. And When I compared the 21sf to the 226, I thought it was just about the same girth, but with more ammo capacity in a bigger caliber for $350 less. Glocks Rock, even though they are called tupperware by many. Personally, I would prefer a custom 1911 to either, but money is an issue. You could probably sell your sig and buy a new Glock for about the same moolah. I have to wait until Christmas for mine though
Shooter429
Shooter429
G
I shoot best with the 226. I have the 220 and the 228 along with the 26 and the 27. My ammo of choice has been .45.
I have just started with the 26 and really like the smaller size. The 228 is a little fat for my hands which are not so small but arthritus controls me a little
I appreciate reading all the knowledge generated on this forum.
BGC
I have just started with the 26 and really like the smaller size. The 228 is a little fat for my hands which are not so small but arthritus controls me a little
I appreciate reading all the knowledge generated on this forum.
BGC
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