[Longranger44]

Well you're going to need a strong spring, and a good comp. As for the barrel, you'd just need to ask the manufacturer of the barrel with the .45 ACP chamber if it'll take the 40,000 psi or whatever. They're probably going to say no, even if it would. Sure wouldn't hurt to have a heavier slide, to help keep the slide speed down. Probably need mag springs.

What's proprietary other than the chamber?

Anyway, go for it. You'll probably be ok and never get hurt, or maybe you'll be unlucky and find out for yourself what's first to let go.

The 460 brass is more expensive, the chamber needs to be reamed longer which equals more unnecessary expense for no apparent reason. And that's if you don't buy Rowlands overpriced parts. Again, what's the logical advantage of the 460 rowland?
Now if someone said hey, the barrel steel used or the heat treat is different, and could prove that, then I'd listen. But until then the only argument I've seen for the 460 rowland is an appeal to authority.

 

[Gregsmith59a]

If you think about it, more than 3/4 of pistol and rifle rounds could be done away with.

But I still love my .41 Remington Mag, .257 Weatherby and 16 Guage.

and they just keep coming out with more!

the firearm industry faces the problem of convincing users to buy new guns when, the technology hasn't changed much in decades (besides optics), and for most users their products have an indefinite service life.

guns like the sig p365 and shield plus are innovative in the way they have balanced size and capacity, but are they really that different than subcompacts of yesteryear? not really...

and if you buy one this year, what are they going to sell you next year? the same gun in 30 super carry!

 

[Glockside]

I don't think you understand the question. If you're a reloader, and you're wanting 460 rowland power, why spend the money on the proprietary rowland parts when you can do the exact same thing with 45 super?

Nothing is stopping you from doing that, just as nothing is stopping you as a reloader from loading 38 special cases with 357 magnum loadings for use in your 357. The point is to prevent accidents where someone puts your handloads in an old Colt 1911 or S&W revolver. It's probably never going to be a problem for you, but maybe one day you pass away and your estate gets auctioned off and some unsuspecting buyer will put your 45 loads in the wrong gun. I think that's partially the point he is trying to make.

 

[Mayhem like Me]

Uh huh, and what exactly is the difference in strength between running starline 45 super in a well supported threaded 45 acp glock 21 barrel with a comp, vs doing the 460 conversion? By the way the comparison you're making has already been done in 38 special revolvers by seating the bullet way out to match 357 case capacity, in a gun that's strong enough for 357 mag. So again I'll ask, where EXACTLY does the difference in strength come from?

You answered your own question you can run 357 mag pressure 38s in a 357 NOT a 38 special , the guns not strong enough the cases are.

If you load 45 super to Rowland specs your gun better be Rowland strength, to ready your Glock for 45 super you get a stout recoil spring , to get it ready for 460 rowland you need a new barrel as well.

It's a system the 460 rowland was developed with their chamber NOT a 45acp chamber.

 

[Mayhem like Me]

I don't think you understand the question. If you're a reloader, and you're wanting 460 rowland power, why spend the money on the proprietary rowland parts when you can do the exact same thing with 45 super?

45 super chamber is not rated for pressure that high , good luck you may never have a problem, till you do .

 

[dla]

How many if you 45super loaders ever shoot a load that has been pressure tested?
(crickets chirping).

I see people posting that they have 300gr@1200fps out of their 45super - think that 28kpsi? 40kpsi? They don't know.

The 460 Rowland is a smart way to get the most out of the 45acp.

 

[SDDL-UP]

I'm not an expert here, but it is my understanding the brass case has almost nothing to do with the safe pressure levels of handgun cartridges - it's all about FIREARM design and construction.

A "new" and more powerful cartridge may only be more powerful because of modern metallurgy and the stamp on the barrel / firearm to prove it.

 

[SDGlock23]

your hottest 45 super loads won't touch a similar Rowland loading with the same level of safety .

How so? If Starline .45 Super brass is as strong as 460 Rowland brass, due to OAL constrains, both could be loaded identical.

You answered your own question you can run 357 mag pressure 38s in a 357 NOT a 38 special , the guns not strong enough the cases are.

If you load 45 super to Rowland specs your gun better be Rowland strength, to ready your Glock for 45 super you get a stout recoil spring , to get it ready for 460 rowland you need a new barrel as well.

It's a system the 460 rowland was developed with their chamber NOT a 45acp chamber.

You can run 460 from a Glock, granted you need a well supported barrel, a compensator and possibly a strong recoil spring assembly. A G21 is a G21, no differences there and you can buy well supported G21 barrels outside of the Rowland "kit" that also have comps.

If you put two and two together, you get the ability to run .45 Super to 460 Rowland levels.

 

[Mayhem like Me]

How so? If Starline .45 Super brass is as strong as 460 Rowland brass, due to OAL constrains, both could be loaded identical.



You can run 460 from a Glock, granted you need a well supported barrel, a compensator and possibly a strong recoil spring assembly. A G21 is a G21, no differences there and you can buy well supported G21 barrels outside of the Rowland "kit" that also have comps.

If you put two and two together, you get the ability to run .45 Super to 460 Rowland levels.

So you have to build your gun strong enough with a new barrel, to imitate a 460 rowland which in its base form is much hotter than a 45 super , so you are not loading 45 super rounds you are loading 460 rowland rounds , in the wrong case, and shooting them with a barrel the manufacture never intended to shoot loads that hot?

Ya seems legit, does the barrel manufacture of that 45 super barrel warranty that barrel for 40.000psi loads? If so please post that e mail or information.

 

[Longranger44]

Nothing is stopping you from doing that, just as nothing is stopping you as a reloader from loading 38 special cases with 357 magnum loadings for use in your 357. The point is to prevent accidents where someone puts your handloads in an old Colt 1911 or S&W revolver. It's probably never going to be a problem for you, but maybe one day you pass away and your estate gets auctioned off and some unsuspecting buyer will put your 45 loads in the wrong gun. I think that's partially the point he is trying to make.

My original question is if there is any reason OTHER THAN THAT to go with 460 rowland? I don't have any other 45 acp guns and am 30 and don't plan on dying any time soon so the mix up issue is pretty much irrelevant to me.

 

[Longranger44]

You answered your own question you can run 357 mag pressure 38s in a 357 NOT a 38 special , the guns not strong enough the cases are.

If you load 45 super to Rowland specs your gun better be Rowland strength, to ready your Glock for 45 super you get a stout recoil spring , to get it ready for 460 rowland you need a new barrel as well.

It's a system the 460 rowland was developed with their chamber NOT a 45acp chamber.

That's why I said if you use the right comp, springs, etc if there's any reason to go with 460 other than to prevent brass mix ups. So basically the answer that I'm hearing from you is no.

 

[Longranger44]

45 super chamber is not rated for pressure that high , good luck you may never have a problem, till you do .

And can you provide an actual factual reason why that would be the case, besides Mr rowland getting his patented round a higher rating to make it seem extra "speshul"?

 

[Longranger44]

How many if you 45super loaders ever shoot a load that has been pressure tested?
(crickets chirping).

I see people posting that they have 300gr@1200fps out of their 45super - think that 28kpsi? 40kpsi? They don't know.

The 460 Rowland is a smart way to get the most out of the 45acp.

If the case capacity is identical, then why wouldnt pressures for established 460 rowland load data apply to 45 super?

 

[Longranger44]

How so? If Starline .45 Super brass is as strong as 460 Rowland brass, due to OAL constrains, both could be loaded identical.



You can run 460 from a Glock, granted you need a well supported barrel, a compensator and possibly a strong recoil spring assembly. A G21 is a G21, no differences there and you can buy well supported G21 barrels outside of the Rowland "kit" that also have comps.

If you put two and two together, you get the ability to run .45 Super to 460 Rowland levels.

This is what I'm thinking as well. Did you personally ever consider 450 smc? I know the brass is basically non existant but it would theoretically be stronger than 45 super and 460 Rowland right? I seem to remember seeing a fair amount of guys shooting 460 rowland up near 40k psi having some pressure signs with the primers.

 

[Syclone0538]

If the case capacity is identical, then why wouldnt pressures for established 460 rowland load data apply to 45 super?

Because no manufacturer has any reason to proof test a .45 ACP gun/barrel for pressure that high.

 

[Longranger44]

So you have to build your gun strong enough with a new barrel, to imitate a 460 rowland which in its base form is much hotter than a 45 super , so you are not loading 45 super rounds you are loading 460 rowland rounds , in the wrong case, and shooting them with a barrel the manufacture never intended to shoot loads that hot?

Ya seems legit, does the barrel manufacture of that 45 super barrel warranty that barrel for 40.000psi loads? If so please post that e mail or information.

Again, if you can provide any information showing a difference berween 460 barrelsin barrel materials, heat treat, etc please post that email or information.

Because no manufacturer has any reason to proof test a .45 ACP gun/barrel for pressure that high.

So you're saying it's because it hasn't actually been tested. Not because there's any actual difference. Got it.

 

[Syclone0538]

Again, if you can provide any information showing a difference berween 460 barrelsin barrel materials, heat treat, etc please post that email or information.

So you're saying it's because it hasn't actually been tested. Not because there's any actual difference. Got it.

That would depend on the specific gun/barrel. If it has a fully supported chamber, made with quality steel, thicker than necessary for standard .45 ACP loads, I'm sure you'd be fine.

If you go to a pawn shop and buy the cheapest .45 you can find, put a .45 loaded to .460 in it, you'd probably be lucky if you only blow the mag out of the gun.

Rowland probably knows which guns can take it, but they aren't going to tell you, 1, for liability, and 2, for financial incentives.

 

[Mayhem like Me]

Again, if you can provide any information showing a difference berween 460 barrelsin barrel materials, heat treat, etc please post that email or information.

Again , i'm sure the guys that spent huge money developing and certifying their cartridge are just gonna share that information with you so you gan benefit from their time and investment , please show me the pressure testing on the 45 super barrels you say can reliably handle 460 rowland pressures, I'm still waiting , did the manufacturers tell you those loads were safe in their barrels do you happen to have those e-mails ?

it's you burden to prove those loads are safe in a 45 super barrel , not mine .

 

[fredj338]

If you think about it, more than 3/4 of pistol and rifle rounds could be done away with.

But I still love my .41 Remington Mag, .257 Weatherby and 16 Guage.

Yeah but no fun in that. My hunting rifles are all wildcats or obscure, just because.

 

[Longranger44]

That would depend on the specific gun/barrel. If it has a fully supported chamber, made with quality steel, thicker than necessary for standard .45 ACP loads, I'm sure you'd be fine.

If you go to a pawn shop and buy the cheapest .45 you can find, put a .45 loaded to .460 in it, you'd probably be lucky if you only blow the mag out of the gun.

Rowland probably knows which guns can take it, but they aren't going to tell you, 1, for liability, and 2, for financial incentives.

I guess I didn't say it but the gun that I have in mind is the g21