[Plastic_Enjoyer]

I’d rather refer to the last paragraph of post #10

@CDW4ME

If you would add the text instead of giving everybody homework that would be geeeeaat.

 

[Bosch]

"if someone begins a discussion by stating the 'ballistic superiority' of some specific service caliber, that's when I stop giving much credence to whatever else they're spouting or pontificating upon.

A ding dong post by any another name...

It exudes internet lore and reeks of basement and hot pockets.

 

[Bosch]

It seems some people are very upset about this…

No, you're just a new poster doing new poster things and people are laughing out loud.

Maybe, read more and talk less for awhile.

 

[Plastic_Enjoyer]

It seems some people are very upset about this… All I said was that 9mm is not superior or on par with the .40 or .45 and that is OK. It has its own advantages. Just round for round there’s no competition.

Lol

 

[Schrag4]

I don't remember seeing any claims that the 9mm is ballistically superior 🤔.

Exactly. The argument for 9mm isn’t that it’s superior ballistically, it’s that it’s good enough ballistically and therefore outshines the alternatives on every other front (price, capacity, shootability, etc).

There’s no such thing as a good analogy, but which would you use to tow your fishing boat to the lake, an F150 or a semi tractor? One has more towing power after all, so it MUST be the best choice, right?

 

[Glock23Gen5]

No, you're just a new poster doing new poster things and people are laughing out loud.

Maybe, read more and talk less for awhile.

Salty!

 

[Blue72]

Lethality is not a concern for self defense, ASAP incapacitation is.

Shot placement is one variable that is not completely under one's control and will be determined when one is attempting to defend their life.
Equivalent shot placement is assumed in caliber discussions, should be a giant bolded sticky so it doesn't have to continually be interjected.

Caliber, capacity and bullet type are factors mostly under one's control in advance.

So assuming equal shot placement a 9mm HST has better ASAP potential than a 32 FMJ.
Yes, a 45 HST has arguably even better ASAP potential but then we start talking things other than terminal performance like capacity, recoil, grip.

regardless, the negligible difference in energy from 9mm, 40, 45, etc are not noticeable regarding incapacitation.

just go deer hunting with the three rounds and you will realize everyone is splitting hairs

 

[Blue72]

Even with those high numbers, rifle & buckshot have failed.

agreed but most hunters and the military use that number for “ reliable lethality “

 

[Nanuk]

If you would add the text instead of giving everybody homework that would be geeeeaat.

I don't do homework anymore.

 

[357GreenCountry]

Remember when black talons came out? One would think the media believed them to be able to slay anything.

 

[Butzbach]

First things first is I want to say that the 9mm is a great all around caliber. It strikes a great balance between capacity and power.

That being said, the arguments for it being superior to the .357 SIG, .40, and .45 are ridiculous. I just want 9mm fans to be honest here.

The 9mm is ballistically inferior to the aforementioned calibers above. There’s no debating it, but yet I see 9mm fans say that “the 9mm has caught up”, but those advancements wouldn’t just magically apply to ONLY 9mm. It’s a weird argument.

For the 9mm people who argue that all pistol calibers are the same and there’s no real difference… why don’t you carry a .30 Super Carry? Or a .380? Or a .22? Well the simple answer is they aren’t confident in the stopping power of those rounds.

I just want the 9mm folks to stop with the delusion and pretending the 9mm is on par with the bigger dogs. It’s a great caliber and I’ve owned several 9mms and have carried them extensively. I just think it’s time to stop treating the 9mm as if it’s this golden child. It’s not and that’s OK.

I let my Hi-Power go for this very reason. I've never fired one but I'll bet a CZ 75 would be great too. I always put the Steyr GBs on my GB watch list but I'l never pull the trigger. Just can't convince myself that 9 mm is enough gun.

 

[Butzbach]

View attachment 1423591
View attachment 1423593

Sometimes slow fat an ugly still gets the job done. (cuz they don't make a .46?)

 

[Butzbach]

View attachment 1423615

That's what she said.

 

[Julius Seizure]

A ding dong post by any another name...

It exudes internet lore and reeks of basement and hot pockets.

 

[40/45]

If you would add the text instead of giving everybody homework that would be geeeeaat.

Stop your whinin

 

[Butzbach]

ALL Y'ALL, please see post #8 of this thread. There is iron in those words.

Sooo, "Death is easy for men like you and me . . ." so carry a 9mm?

 

[40/45]

Remember when black talons came out? One would think the media believed them to be able to slay anything.

I know I did. Still have some 👍

 

[Stantheman86]

First things first is I want to say that the 9mm is a great all around caliber. It strikes a great balance between capacity and power.

That being said, the arguments for it being superior to the .357 SIG, .40, and .45 are ridiculous. I just want 9mm fans to be honest here.

The 9mm is ballistically inferior to the aforementioned calibers above. There’s no debating it, but yet I see 9mm fans say that “the 9mm has caught up”, but those advancements wouldn’t just magically apply to ONLY 9mm. It’s a weird argument.

For the 9mm people who argue that all pistol calibers are the same and there’s no real difference… why don’t you carry a .30 Super Carry? Or a .380? Or a .22? Well the simple answer is they aren’t confident in the stopping power of those rounds.

I just want the 9mm folks to stop with the delusion and pretending the 9mm is on par with the bigger dogs. It’s a great caliber and I’ve owned several 9mms and have carried them extensively. I just think it’s time to stop treating the 9mm as if it’s this golden child. It’s not and that’s OK.

Here's a reality based response....

Not everyone carries like they're preparing for a running gun battle .

A 9mm will be perfectly functional as a last ditch self defense round and isn't that why "regular people " carry ? Also, it has less blast, less recoil and still allows a person to protect themselves with a round that has stopping power. Not everyone wants a .45 or can handle one

A regular person going about their day doesn't "gear up" to take on 5 terrorists or worry about one shot stops. They most likely want a little 9 like a G43 or similar to use as a hail Mary, I'm about to die , get off me gun. Not a 10mm or 45 they have a .01% chance of actually using.

9mm is kind of the new 380. Like you said , and that's ok. Many people are perfectly fine with a 9mm. Micro 9s closed the gap that was previously filled by pocket rockets in 22 , 25 and 32, and made micro 380s more or less obsolete except for people who really want a 380

I like 9mm as a range round because it's cheap and basically every type of firearm I like to shoot is available in 9mm......Semi pistols , DA and SA revolvers , PCCs, I'm sure if you look hard enough a 9mm bolt action and lever action rifle exist . It's the Jack of all trades round .

For $200-250 I can have a case of 9mm on my doorstep within 2 business days. Used to be $100-150 but that's an old wound from the "pre pandemic " era . I'll take what I can get. 200 buck per 1000 9mm keeps me shooting . Vs 4-500 buck .45 ACP.

Plus. How much is too much? Should I go back to packing my 44 Magnum Redhawk snubby IWB like I used to, so I don't have to worry about shot placement and a hit anywhere is a stop 😆 plus hope there's no one behind the bad guys for about 500 yards. 44 Magnum "+P+" Ruger Only hardcast loads that are basically 454 Casull in disguise , because shooting twice is silly .

 

[Julius Seizure]

Well ****, I’ve been carrying 13 rounds of .380 the last 4 days. I may as well lay down and die, I’m really ****ed

 

[357GreenCountry]

I know I did. Still have some 👍

It was designed and released in 91 so not long after the famous FBI shootout. Seems kind of funny all the talk the past several years about ammo engineering.