[ithaca_deerslayer]

For my S&W 640, I'm thinking about getting some carry ammo between .38spl +P and .357mag, in 158gr.

I was shooting those two loads in it today, and seems there is a lot of room between those two. The mags were Winchester Super-X. I might still carry those, too, but am just curious if there is a stout .38 load designed for self-defense carry.

I was also shooting the .38 +P Gold Dot 135 gr short barrel. There is more room for power over those, and my gun seems to shoot all variety of 158gr better.

 

[ithaca_deerslayer]

This Buffalo Bore .38spl +P 158gr LSWCHP sounds promising:

2" gun = 1040 fps

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108

 

[TeaDub]

Yep. BB would be a good choice. Both Gold Dot and Golden Saber offer "mid-range" magnum loads that might be what your after? They are mid weight but loaded down a bit from the screamers.

I'll be watching for more ideas. :cheers:

 

[-JCN-]

Underwood 38spl

This is what I had for the 125gr. It IMHO is in between for feel and ballistics.

 

[Lt. Donn]

For my S&W 640, I'm thinking about getting some carry ammo between .38spl +P and .357mag, in 158gr.

I was shooting those two loads in it today, and seems there is a lot of room between those two. The mags were Winchester Super-X. I might still carry those, too, but am just curious if there is a stout .38 load designed for self-defense carry.

I was also shooting the .38 +P Gold Dot 135 gr short barrel. There is more room for power over those, and my gun seems to shoot all variety of 158gr better.

Yep...look at Buffalo Bore

 

[MinervaDoe]

For my S&W 640, I'm thinking about getting some carry ammo between .38spl +P and .357mag, in 158gr.

I'm on the same fence with a couple of my light carry pistols. I'm probably going to have to reload to bridge the gap. I found it interesting that when I compare the stated velocities on an old box of Remington .38 Special +P ammo and a newer box of Hornady Critical Defense .38 Special 110 grain) they are about the same. i.e. the more modern ammo seems to use a powder that allows the Critical Defense to push 1010 fps without generating so much pressure that it gets classified as +P.

 

[Borg Warner]

For my S&W 640, I'm thinking about getting some carry ammo between .38spl +P and .357mag, in 158gr.

I was shooting those two loads in it today, and seems there is a lot of room between those two. The mags were Winchester Super-X. I might still carry those, too, but am just curious if there is a stout .38 load designed for self-defense carry.

I was also shooting the .38 +P Gold Dot 135 gr short barrel. There is more room for power over those, and my gun seems to shoot all variety of 158gr better.

The best 38 special +P load is still the 158 grain lead HP which is loaded by Federal to 900 fps. And it's cheaper than the Remington, Winch3ester, Buffalo Bore, or Underwood.

https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-158-gr-lswchp-federal-le-50-rounds

 

[TeaDub]

The best 38 special +P load is still the 158 grain lead HP which is loaded by Federal to 900 fps. And it's cheaper than the Remington, Winch3ester, Buffalo Bore, or Underwood.

https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-158-gr-lswchp-federal-le-50-rounds

Almost certainly not 900 out of a 640. The same website actually tested it in a 2" gun and it was below 800 FPS with no expansion. Even out of a 4.2 inch barrel it didn't quite make 900 FPS.

https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-158-gr-lswchp-federal-le-50-rounds#geltest

I won't carry the modern production "FBI Load" in a 2" gun from any of the "Big 3". They watered them down and (I suspect) hardened the alloy content.

I missed the comment from the OP about wanting a 158gr due to accuracy. Underwood or Buffalo Bore seems like the best choice I've seen.

 

[ithaca_deerslayer]

The best 38 special +P load is still the 158 grain lead HP which is loaded by Federal to 900 fps. And it's cheaper than the Remington, Winch3ester, Buffalo Bore, or Underwood.

https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-158-gr-lswchp-federal-le-50-rounds

I was shooting the nyclad version of those, which I would think are the same loading. I haven't seen the nyclads in a while. Good stuff for my aluminum 642, but for my 640 I feel like they are too soft shooting.

Too soft in the sense that I can ratchet the ammo up in power.

This whole thread might make more sense if I mention that I carry my aluminum 642 with the Federal 158gr +P nyclads, shooting those occasionaly. And I practice shoot my aluminum 637 a lot, with 158gr handloads. Those guns are twins, except the 642 is internal hammer. Both are .38 around 14.5 oz.

Then I also have a 640 Pro all steel, .357, 22.2 oz, internal hammer. I'm getting a separate holster for it, because it is just a tad too tight in the kydex .38 holsters I have for the 642 and 640. This gun has night sights, that are great in daytime too.

Anyway, the 640 is very soft shooting compared to the 637/642. So, I have room for more power. Of course I could just stick with the .357mag loads and call it a day. But I have a 2.5" 686 for those. They are shootable in the 640, but not ideal, with regard to noise, recoil, and flash. So I'm just a fairy tail bear looking for something "just right"

 

[Berto]

Buffalo Bore and Underwood will do as advertised and basically match the typical milquetoast 158gr .357mag remfedchester loads in a snubby....or slightly better than the best +p 147gr 9mm short bbl numbers. I get 1000fps (give or take 25fps depending on temp) from my 442-2 with BB's +p 158gr lswchp. In the 2.5" 242 L frame, well over 1000fps avg and over 1100fps avg in the 4" mod 64ny1.
The fed and winchester versions suck these days, rem is marginal.

 

[Berto]

The Speer 135gr gold dot short bbl magnum load is also good.

 

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Underwood 38spl

Those are worth a try

.38 +P 158gr LSWCHP
says 1000 fps, but dunno bbl length

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...al-p-158-grain-lead-semi-wadcutter-hollow-point-gas-check?variant=7865929203769

 

[ithaca_deerslayer]

The Speer 135gr gold dot short bbl magnum load is also good.

I might try a box of those, but light bullets haven't had good accuracy yet. The .38 135 GD shirt barrel are not accurate in my gun and they fly low right, compared to 158gr (37 LRN, 38 LSWC, 357mag LSWC).

Plus heavier bullet should have more penetration if needed, all other thngs equal.

 

[ithaca_deerslayer]

The best 38 special +P load is still the 158 grain lead HP which is loaded by Federal to 900 fps. And it's cheaper than the Remington, Winch3ester, Buffalo Bore, or Underwood.

https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-158-gr-lswchp-federal-le-50-rounds

I wonder if these are higher velocity than my old nyclads? They say "high velocity" so maybe you are on to something. Says 900 fps (edited, but now I see TeaDub's post ssying they are 800fps out of 2", so I dunno, need to buy and try I guess).

https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-p-158-gr-lswchp-federal-le-50-rounds

 

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Buffalo Bore and Underwood will do as advertised and basically match the typical milquetoast 158gr .357mag remfedchester loads in a snubby....or slightly better than the best +p 147gr 9mm short bbl numbers. I get 1000fps (give or take 25fps depending on temp) from my 442-2 with BB's +p 158gr lswchp. In the 2.5" 242 L frame, well over 1000fps avg and over 1100fps avg in the 4" mod 64ny1.
The fed and winchester versions suck these days, rem is marginal.

Is there a a benifit to the BB 158gr .38 +P compared to today's remfedchester 158gr mags?

Are you saying they will have the same velocity out of a 2" (my 640 is 2.25")?

Will recoil, flash, and noise be the same? Or does the BB .38 have a greater efficiency.

JCN (GT member) for example is hot to trot with best examples of 9mm 147 gr with regard to how they perform and feel. Apples/oranges with semi and revolver, but does the 9mm have efficiency advantage? That short case can't keep up with max loaded .38 and .357, but for finding the sweet spot for piwer and control the 9mm does good. So, does the .38 case have an advantage over mag cases?

I know .38 will hypothetically eject from the .357 snubby cylinder better.

 

[Berto]

I know the BB +p load is not as abusive to shoot from the 17oz model 242 (7 shot L frame) vs shooting magtech 158gr .357 in the 17oz LCR in terms of recoil or boom.
And velocities are literally equal.
The lighter and less padded 442 has stout recoil with that load, but manageable
.357mag still uses more pressure to do the same work with a jacketed bullet than the .38sp load using a gas checked lead bullet.
I have my own theories on whats most efficient in in the three rounds, but 158gr is a sweet spot for high performance .38sp at sane pressures with a lead slug. 9mm could achieve about the same, but requires twice the pressure and 9mm pistols dont typically agree much with lead slugs, esp a lswchp. .357 mag has about the same pressure as 9mm but much more case capacity and thus more powder, so its going to tack quite a bit more vel than the other two when they same effort is expended in load developement as BB puts into this load....but the remfedchester bunch appeals to a much broader market than someone seeking the hottest loading. Most of the bulk 158gr .357 is mild really, esp Blazer.

 

[Berto]

The 158gr Nyclad +p was typically sub 800fps in a snubby, same as their regular lhp.
I r emember it being really accurate though in my 15-2.

 

[JK-linux]

I run Underwood 158gr LSWCHP; both the standard and +P are pretty spirited. Anyhow, if you want something heavy, in between 38 and 357, one of the boutique houses if probably your best bet. The 125gr Golden Saber 357 isn't bad either, and though I'm not sure it's anything special in the velocity department, it does have a relatively "modern" JHP bullet design which might expand sometimes out of a snubbie.

 

[Borg Warner]

I was shooting the nyclad version of those, which I would think are the same loading. I haven't seen the nyclads in a while. Good stuff for my aluminum 642, but for my 640 I feel like they are too soft shooting.

Too soft in the sense that I can ratchet the ammo up in power.

This whole thread might make more sense if I mention that I carry my aluminum 642 with the Federal 158gr +P nyclads, shooting those occasionaly. And I practice shoot my aluminum 637 a lot, with 158gr handloads. Those guns are twins, except the 642 is internal hammer. Both are .38 around 14.5 oz.

Then I also have a 640 Pro all steel, .357, 22.2 oz, internal hammer. I'm getting a separate holster for it, because it is just a tad too tight in the kydex .38 holsters I have for the 642 and 640. This gun has night sights, that are great in daytime too.

Anyway, the 640 is very soft shooting compared to the 637/642. So, I have room for more power. Of course I could just stick with the .357mag loads and call it a day. But I have a 2.5" 686 for those. They are shootable in the 640, but not ideal, with regard to noise, recoil, and flash. So I'm just a fairy tail bear looking for something "just right"

Instead of going for a maximum 38 soecial laod, you fould go with a minimum 357 load, Lucky gunner tested the 125 gr JHP Winchester Elite PDX1 and that seemed to be the lowest velocity load of any of the 357 mag loads they tested.

Winchester Elite PDX1

https://www.luckygunner.com/winchester-357-magnum-ammo-20-rounds-of-125-grain-jhp-ammunition#geltest

All 357 loads tested:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

 

[michpatriot]

I like the GoldDot 357 SB in my 340PD during summer, winter carry is BuffaloBore 158gr 38+p and when I'm up north in the woods its BuffaloBore .357 180gr Outdoorsman...and a band-aid.