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Student expelled for having gun OFF campus...

7.3K views 79 replies 51 participants last post by  nctrp  
#1 ·
How the heck is this legal???

http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_13831318

Student expelled for having unloaded shotguns in truck
By RYAN OLSON - Staff Writer
Posted: 11/20/2009 12:09:32 AM PST

WILLOWS -- The Willows Unified School District board of trustees has expelled a 16-year-old for having unloaded shotguns in his pickup parked just off the Willows High School campus.

The board voted 4-0 Thursday to expel junior Gary Tudesko after the weapons were discovered via scent-sniffing dogs on Oct. 26. Board Vice President Alex Parisio abstained from the discussion and vote because he is related to Tudesko's family.

Expulsion hearings are normally held in closed sessions, but affected students and their parents can request a public hearing.

Susan Parisio defended her son during the 105-minute public hearing at Willows Civic Center. She acknowledged that Tudesko was lazy for not storing the shotguns at home after a morning of bird hunting, but she questioned the district's ability to enforce its policies off Willows High School property.

"My son was not even parked on school property," Parisio said.

Willows High Principal Mort Geivett and other district officials did not appear to dispute that the parking space was off school property, but they cited several justifications. One of them was the legal doctrine of in loco parentis — where school officials may act in place of a parent for school functions.

Geivett said the school was responsible for students traveling to and from school as well as during lunch. He said he believed that students should not possess weapons within 1,000 feet of campus.

Geivett said he believed off-campus parking around the school was under the school's jurisdiction, in part because it is primarily used by students.

"I'm erring on the safe side of protecting staff and kids," he said.

The incident began on Oct. 26 when scent-sniffing dogs detected something in a pickup on the street north of the tennis courts on West Willow Street. A Willows police officer did a search of the license plate and traced the pickup to Tudesko.

Tudesko came out to the vehicle and said there were two shotguns and shells in the pickup. He opened his vehicle for a search, which revealed the guns on the rear seat as well as a knife with a 3-inch blade. The police held the weapons and the school suspended Tudesko for five days, which was later extended indefinitely until Thursday's hearing.

Geivett said the Education Code requires the school pursue expulsion, when a student is in possession of a firearm, knife or explosive without written permission from the school. He said he was concerned for the safety of students and staff.

"Gary should've known better than to come to campus with guns in his truck," Geivett said.

In addition to the Education Code, the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995 bars possession of firearms within 1,000 feet of a school, but there are exceptions for private property and for lawful transportation of non-concealable weapons.

Parisio said her son was raised in a family that has always owned guns.

"We have always, always stressed that safety is important," she said.

Parisio revisited the searches that uncovered the guns. She noted the canine search found two additional vehicles that resulted in the discovery of live ammunition.

Parisio compared the ammo to explosives — which is also covered by the mandatory expulsion law — and asked why there weren't expulsion hearings for those students.

In addition, one of the shotguns in Tudesko's pickup belonged to a friend who rode to school with Tudesko. Parisio asked why the school didn't punish this student as well.

"Selective enforcement in of itself is wrong," Parisio said.

Before the end of the session, Tudesko spoke briefly. He apologized for his actions and said he wanted to be on time for school. Tudesko said he believed it was all right to park on a public street with the unloaded weapons.

After the hearing, several school board members declined to comment on their decision.

Parisio said she will appeal the district's decision to the Glenn County Board of Education. If the decision is upheld and her son is sent to a continuation school, Parisio said she would likely home-school Tudesko.
 
#27 ·
And when I was in school guns were kept on gunracks in students trucks.

We did not shoot each other...

What changed?

Are kids just F'ing mean these days or have worthless parents produced worthless kids?

Do the math.

Yes, I know "Different times then old guy...." Not so long ago as you might think though...I've just been out of high school for 25 yrs.
 
#28 ·
It would be interesting to know why there was a K-9 unit inspecting the area in the first place. If this was indeed a violation of state law, was he also charged with a crime? During the expulsion hearing, one of the school administrators stated the BELIEVED it violated the law..but did it?

Regardless, I believe this is another example of zero tolerance lacking common sense (just like the kid who brought his camping tool to school and was almost expelled because it also had a blade in it). There is definitely grounds for a civil suit here, especially if they based their expelling decision on personal opinion and not fact.
 
#29 ·
All you people arguing that "it is against the law" are MISSING THE POINT. I can break whatever law I please, including murder, AS LONG AS IT IS OFF SCHOOL PROPERTY, and the school has absolutely no jurisdiction whatsoever over me. School jurisdiction is limited to ..... (drumroll please....) ACTIVITIES ON SCHOOL PROPERTY OR AT SCHOOL EVENTS!!! (doh!) This kid did NOTHING against school rules. He parked on public property. He did not bring guns onto campus. In fact, he parked on public property TO AVOID bringing guns onto campus.

He should sue their a**es off. He should also have told the cops to get a warrant to open his car. NEVER give a cop permission to search your car. NEVER.
 
#30 ·
The firearms being in his truck doesn't mean they were on private property. This refers to where the truck is. Which the article doesn't say he was parked on private property.


This is where the private property kicks in. A personal home, is private property.

I'm not saying the truck was on private property. It was parked on a public street, or not on school grounds, which is my point. I'm saying that the inside of my locked vehicle parked on a public street is very much my private property, and falls under no jurisdiction of the school at all. Inside of my house=inside of my truck= get a warrant if you were not invited and want to come in and snoop around.

Kid did the right thing, parked off campus, and was slapped down for it anyway
 
#31 ·
Link to the law here.

(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).

(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:

(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle. This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in accordance with state law.
This code only applies to concealable firearms which I'm fairly certain would not apply to any shotgun used for bird hunting.
Regardless it's an asinine move for the school board and the kid should win the appeal and lawsuit.
 
#32 ·
Many stupid things about zero tolerance policies but the biggest of all is if the child intended to do harm with his shotgun before this incident (which is what the law is trying to prevent but can't) he'd almost surely have intent now and there's nothing to prevent him from carrying it out.

When are the bureaucrats going to learn that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun?

Your stupid law does NOTHING to prevent criminal activity. It only defines it.
 
#33 ·
He should also have told the cops to get a warrant to open his car. NEVER give a cop permission to search your car. NEVER.
Would they need a warranty, with them having a K9 dog wouldn't that give them probable cause to search his vehicle? :dunno:
 
#35 ·
Willows High Principal Mort Geivett and other district officials did not appear to dispute that the parking space was off school property, but they cited several justifications. One of them was the legal doctrine of in loco parentis — where school officials may act in place of a parent for school functions.
Loco being the key word...
 
#36 ·
Would they need a warranty, with them having a K9 dog wouldn't that give them probable cause to search his vehicle? :dunno:

Yes they would have probable cause. I'm not sure where the vehicle was at this point to know if the police hand the proper legal standing, but a K-9 unit does not violate the 4th Amendment if it smells something and alerts the officer. It falls under the plain sight exception to a warrantless search.
 
#37 ·
Yes they would have probable cause. I'm not sure where the vehicle was at this point to know if the police hand the proper legal standing, but a K-9 unit does not violate the 4th Amendment if it smells something and alerts the officer. It falls under the plain sight exception to a warrantless search.
Guns and gunpowder, unlike drugs, are legal
 
#40 · (Edited)
Sue the K-9. He falsely alerted on explosives when gunpowder is a propellant!
Gunpowder is classified an explosive. Under pressure, when ignited, it produces gasses which expand (i.e. explodes), which in turn PROPELS an projectile.


I'd like to know what state law says about vehicles. In Colorado your vehicle is an extension of your home. I believe he would have a case here.


Edit...Nevermind, it's California. He's screwed
 
#42 ·
"Geivett said the school was responsible for students traveling to and from school as well as during lunch."

Careful there, slick! If your school is claiming this you might have to accept responsibility if one of the little darlings knocks off a 7-11 on the way to school one morning. Or maybe for a hot rodding sophmore running down a pedestrian on the way home or during lunch down the street at the Sonic.
 
#43 ·
"Geivett said the school was responsible for students traveling to and from school as well as during lunch."

Careful there, slick! If your school is claiming this you might have to accept responsibility if one of the little darlings knocks off a 7-11 on the way to school one morning. Or maybe for a hot rodding sophmore running down a pedestrian on the way home or during lunch down the street at the Sonic.
Or even for medical bills if the student is hurt while riding a city bus to school........
 
#44 ·
So if you have an out-of-state permit, normally valid in the state you are in, and you are carrying concealed walking down the sidewalk in front a school you are violation of the law because you're not licensed by the state in which the school is located? This is the first time I've ever heard that.
 
#45 ·
All you people arguing that "it is against the law" are MISSING THE POINT. I can break whatever law I please, including murder, AS LONG AS IT IS OFF SCHOOL PROPERTY, and the school has absolutely no jurisdiction whatsoever over me. School jurisdiction is limited to ..... (drumroll please....) ACTIVITIES ON SCHOOL PROPERTY OR AT SCHOOL EVENTS!!! (doh!) This kid did NOTHING against school rules. He parked on public property. He did not bring guns onto campus. In fact, he parked on public property TO AVOID bringing guns onto campus.

He should sue their a**es off. He should also have told the cops to get a warrant to open his car. NEVER give a cop permission to search your car. NEVER.



Your typing in caps doesn't make you correct. A school has way more jurisdiction over you than you think. It may or may not be "right", but it does have it. You will learn that when you get older and are out of school. Perhaps of no help to you now, but you will need to actually know the law and what you're talking about before "advising" others. You know what the courts say to someone who just "thinks he knows the law?

"Will the defendant please rise".

You need to study the court rulings (case law) on "in loco parentis" to understand what the schools are responsible for, and not go just on what you think is legal. It allows them to have almost total control over a student going to, and coming from school. It doesn't matter what we may think of the situation. If, as an example, the school had a rule that students could not have a firearm within 1000 ft of a school, he violated that rule, whether or not he violated any law.

Under current situations, a school has much more control over students than we may feel is proper, but it does have it.

The fact that this will most likely have to be settled by a court shows how complex these things can be. If you continue to go on just what you think the law states, I see a very troubled future for you.


Oh, although they asked the kid for permission, no warrant was needed.
 
#46 ·
I'd have to go with "the school is wrong" crowd here. If he had parked on school grounds, then yeah, expel him. But he wasn't. His guns were unloaded(according to the article), and on private property(in his truck). No grounds here what so ever(going by the info in the article). If taken at face value, there would be several dozen families in my town that would not be able to own guns, because their house happens to be within a 1000 ft. of a school. Hell, I know of one house in particular that is a mere 10 feet from the parking lot of one of the schools in town. Does that mean they can't keep a gun in the house while living there? I would raise all manner of hell with that school board.
One's vehicle is not always considered private property in every state. We just had an incident where I live where a kid left his hunting rifle in his truck and was busted on school property. He was in violation of the law, that doesn't necessarily mean that I think he should be expelled, but that's another story.

Either way, I started looking into the laws seeming as I work for the local school district and am a gun owning citizen. Alaska state gun law doesn't care if the gun is in your vehicle (what most people think is your private property). Here is what the law states:

It is unlawful to possess a firearm, without the permission of the chief administrative officer of the school or district or the designee of the chief administrative officer, on any public or private school property, on a school bus while being transported to or from school, or at a school-sponsored event, or while participating in a school-sponsored event, except that a person 21 years of age or older may possess an unloaded firearm in the trunk of a motor vehicle or encased in a closed container in a motor vehicle.

In our local incident, since the subject was a minor puts him in violation of the law even though the guns were locked and unloaded in his truck (again, what most people think is their private property).

Basically, what it all comes down to is an unfortunate situation for a minor that seems to be a well intentioned gun owner. Unfortunately with so many varying gun laws, it is our responsibilities as gun owners to be in complete compliance with the local laws.
 
#47 ·
:wavey:
And when I was in school guns were kept on gunracks in students trucks.

We did not shoot each other...

What changed?

Are kids just F'ing mean these days or have worthless parents produced worthless kids?

Do the math.

Yes, I know "Different times then old guy...." Not so long ago as you might think though...I've just been out of high school for 25 yrs.

Ive been out of high school for 2 years. we always kept gun and ammo in our vehicles on school property - no need to go home and get your guns before hunting after school :tongueout:

there was one time i remember one of our teachers came to school with a dead coyote in the bed of his truck, he couldnt pass up the opportunity to shoot it on his way to work:cool:

teachers knew we had guns, we knew they had guns, nobody gave two ****s. we even went to class with knives clipped in our front pockets! Then again, I did go to a small school in rural north dakota..
 
#49 ·
And when I was in school guns were kept on gunracks in students trucks.

We did not shoot each other...

What changed?

Are kids just F'ing mean these days or have worthless parents produced worthless kids?

Do the math.

Yes, I know "Different times then old guy...." Not so long ago as you might think though...I've just been out of high school for 25 yrs.

This.'08. :supergrin: