[1911turbo]

I just got a G43 to replace my Sig P365 after learning that all of the Sig's internal safeties have a single point of failure - if the sear breaks there's nothing to stop the firing pin from going forward. Highly unlikely that such a strong part would ever break but I just don't feel comfortable carrying it with one in the chamber.

The P320 is just a total disaster. Even putting aside all the ADs/NDs, they've been cracking frames!

 

[1911turbo]

Please how us the proof of P320 FCUs cracking, or are you referring to grip modules ?

Who said anything about FCUs?

History repeats itself, I would love to have heard the outrage of all the Glock lovers on here when Glocks were being fielded in the 90s be LEOs, thus inventing the term GlockLeg.

The double standard here is unbelievable.

Glock Leg was not an inherent flaw with the design or manufacturing of the Glock - it was a lack of training among LEOs. Sure, Glock itself has had some issues, but that's separate from Glock Leg. Meanwhile P320s are going off while literally just sitting in holsters...

Be careful when mentioning following Glock, their early days weren't pretty.

Come to mention it, I think Glock invented the term "voluntary upgrade" and used it many, many times.

View attachment 1239567

The last safety related issue I see is 18yrs ago. I guess I just expect a company as large as Sig to be able to figure out how to make a safe gun but then again I suppose this is what happens when you hire the same CEO who drove Kimber into the ground.


I sold my P365 a few weeks ago. Don't miss it one bit, good riddance. I wouldn't carry a P320 if you gave it to me for free.

 

[1911turbo]

I know this has Nothing to do with the debate at hand but what do you carry instead of the 365 now?

My new pocket gun is a G43. I won't get into a discussion about capacity, extensions, etc here but suffice it to say I'm very happy with the switch from the P365 for numerous reasons.

 

[1911turbo]

I'm in awe that you think this is a gun problem and not an ammunition problem.

This is happening even with factory ammo.

And the Glock safety issues through the 90s are numerous and documented. Have they been resolved? Yes, each Glock generation made multiple improvements. I don't care if they happened 18 years ago or 18 months ago.

I do care when they happened because here, today, in 2023 I can go buy a Glock that's had all issues fixed already or a Sig that might blow up on me. Not exactly a tough choice.

If you literally got rid of your P365 (you can't be serious, tell us you are joking) because you are scared of it or because someone told you it will drop-fire, then we can't help you at this point.

You're irrationally angry and it's clouding your reading abilities. I never said anything about P365 drop-firing. But yes, I really did get rid of my P365 for several reasons, one of which was that it has a single point of failure for internal safeties - you Sig fanboys can cry about that all you want but it's a fact.

You really expect us to take you seriously? That is not even a P320 nor P365 FCU, learn your handgun models before you start recycling the internet garbage.

Those are P320s with fracked frames (not FCUs). You can choose not to believe your own eyes, that's on you.

 

[1911turbo]

If you're implying that I don't save every picture of a broken Sig just in case I have to use it in an argument later on and that instead I just search for relevant images when I need to, then yes, you are correct. Are you going to claim that the other three blown up guns also aren't P320s or are you just going to conveniently ignore them?

At this point there has been video evidence of P320s going off on their own while sitting in holsters. A bunch of USPSA guys have had frames and barrels crack (no such issues with Glocks). I've seen .mil folks complain about extractors. Feel free to ignore all of that, be a Sig fanboy, and buy whatever gun you want, I don't care.

This thread was started as a discussion of safety mechanisms and it's demonstrably true that even the P365 is inherently not as a safe of a design as Glock, that's just not up for debate if you actually look at how they function.

 

[1911turbo]

Some ranges have now banned P320s without manual thumb safeties.

 

[1911turbo]

Are you serious?

Yes. Southwest Pistol League in CA is the most recent but apparently there have been others before it.

 

[1911turbo]

With respect, this is incorrect.

With respect, this is incorrect.

Can you cite the sources? Please and thank you.

There's a discharge in the holster caught on camera inside a police station. Surely you've seen it by now. And that's on top of countless reports from users staying that their P320s went off while holstered.

My sources with regards to factory ammo are numerous USPSA shooters who have had this happen. Other guns aren't blowing up nearly as often as P320s, it's not even close.

I don’t understand why you would want to carry a G43? You do realize that an unmodified G43 in a properly designed holster had an uncommanded discharge on video, right?

Source? Has it happened more than once?

 

[1911turbo]

Your statement was that "P320s are going off while literally just sitting in holsters" and "P320s going off on their own while sitting in holsters." And this is incorrect. The P320 in question was jammed/hooked up underneath another Officer's duty belt. There is a significant difference.

Where did you find that as definitive factual information? There wasn't even abother officer near the one whose gun went off.

Would these 'countless' reports include the one where the SRO lied about playing around with his duty weapon, was caught on camera doing it, then admitted he had an problem with this behavior and was terminated for mishandling his weapon and lying under investigation? Would it include the Officer that tossed her P320 in a purse, not designed for pistols, sans holster? Would it include the Officer that wrapped his P320 in a towel and tossed it in a gym bag? More to the point, there is a difference between a 'report' and an actual fact. To date, no qualified expert has been able to get a P320 involved in a discharge to 'go off by itself' nor have they reported any defect or design flaw. You realize this correct?

Every gun design is open to user error if they're not minding the trigger. Sometimes things even get caught in the trigger guard inadvertantly. The thing is though, if it's a one-off I can write it off as user error or a freak accident. When there report and report after report of a gun going off in a holster to the point where there are multiple lawsuits and ranges are banning the gun, I begin to find it more and more difficult that it's just use error again and again and again...

Is this an opinion or can you cite sources that demonstrate P320's are 'blowing up' more than other pistols that have 'blown up'?

It's an observation from being heavily involved in the shooting sports community. There are far, FAR more P320s blowing up than any other gun, it's not even close.

Have you not seen this before? It's been posted/linked on this forum multiple dozens of times.

VIDEO: Holstered Pistol Discharges… Negligent or Accident?

Are you aware of how the internal safety mechanisms work on a Glock? It's physically impossible for it to go off on its own without the trigger being pulled. It seems clear that something was caught in the trigger guard. Besides, if there was a fundamental design flaw with the G43 we'd see as many reports of them going off as we do Sigs.

How many people have to shoot themselves on camera before you sell the pistol? You stated you sold your P365 and yet it's never been on video 'going off by itself'. Above is video of a G43 having an uncommanded discharge. Are you going to still carry that G43 or are you going to now get rid of it?

A G43 cannot physically go off by itself thanks to redundant safety mechanisms. A P365 can because it has a single point of failure. Those are the facts.


By all means feel free to ignore all the evidence and continue defending Sig. Frankly, I don't care who carries what.