[PaulMason]

I have thought about selling my .380's off, ammo is just too expensive to be able to practice with.
.380 is finicky to begin with, would rather carry a "pocket" 9mm seems more consistent even with cheaper stuff.

I don't understand what you mean by 380 is finicky. My 380 has shot everything I put in it and so has others that I
have seen.

Probably limp wrists it alot.

 

[PaulMason]

I think it would be fair to say that .380 presents an increased challenge to the design for a reliable automatic pistol, when compared with 9mm. It has to do with its stubbier shape and wider inconsistency in ammunition dimensions (although perhaps not the power factor -- the 9mm comes in an extremely wide range of loadings). In addition, the 380 guns are often designed to be significantly lighter. This makes them more prone to issues with limp-wristing. The way for designer to do anything about that is to increase the slide travel distance and/or let the slide impact its stop harder. These fixes trade against durability and size, which is paramount as we know.

So, in my mind it definitely requires more engineer/tech hours to design and manufacture a reliable gun in.380. The 9mm is more forgiving to quicker development of magazine, feed path, recoil assembly.

P.S. A number of these issues are made easier in a blowback-operated .380 automatic, except the durability. The barrel is not moving, so the feeding is easier. There is more energy input you know what to do with, so easy ejection is guaranteed, even if you goof with the extractor. Sadly nobody will buy a new Guardian now except masochists who are tolerant of stupidly heavy pistols.

P.P.S. Re-chambering a 9mm into .380 is significantly more difficult than it looks. That is why so many manufacturers convert their Browning-style actions into blowback (e.g. Tanfoglio did it with Witness, Bersa with BPCC, Grand Power to their line: Roxor does not have a rotating barrel). That conversion lets them get away with otherwise unrefined design.

Must disagree. The design criteria for 9mm and 380 are the same. The gun must operate (fire & reload chamber) with the power delivered by the cartridge.

Back in the day there were poorly made guns called 'Saturday Night Specials' (often imported) that were often chambered in smaller calibers e.g. 380. That is where 380 gun bad rap came from.

 

[PaulMason]

Definitely smaller than the P365 in length. Not a huge difference in height.

View attachment 951394

But it looks WAY bigger than the regular LCP II.
View attachment 951391

You can't go by looks. You must look at the numbers. And you can't go by that second chart! Look at the LCPII and where they start the measurement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Same for the first chart with the 365.

Also consider the physics of each gun. The 365 appears to have a higher mass slide and higher center of gravity. Which might make accuracy with rapid fire, under stress more difficult vs the max.

 

[PaulMason]

I only posted the P365 comparison because DD mentioned it. The P365 is my carry gun, but I would never pocket carry it. It's MUCH too large for my frame and becomes a bulky protrusion in a pocket.

The LCP II is fairly similar to my Bodyguard 380 which I have pocket carried. I can see both from the images and from the numbers that, unfortunately, the LCP Max just wouldn't be an option for me personally. Which is too bad, because I like the idea of it. More capacity. Better sights. But for me, much too tall and a grip thickness closer to the P365, which adds to the overall bulk.

I have the BGI380 and I don't think I'll be trading it in for the MAX. If a person feels the need for more rounds, a second mag. is always an option. I have a pocket holster for the BG that has a place for a second mag.

Not the brand but the idea. Ideally, the mag should be in your off hand.

DeSantis Ammo Nemesis Colt Mustang/S&W Bodyguard/SIG P238/Springfield 911 Pocket Holster with Magazine Pouch Ambidextrous Synthetic Rubberized Fabric [FC-792695325451]

Cheaper Than Dirt! is America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter, and we live up to that title. Expect bulk ammo deals, discount firearms, parts to build your next gun and more.

www.cheaperthandirt.com

 

[PaulMason]

I can't speak highly enough about those Ammo Armor mag carriers. Got their 'buy 3 get 1 free' deal. One of the sizes was for the spare LCP mag. Fits great and disappears in the off side pocket. And does a great job of protecting the mag, especially if you have something else in the pocket. And of course helps keep pocket lint and stuff out of the mag. $10 and they'll likely last forever and a day.

I looked at those. I have a suggestion for you to make some money. Design a plastic cap that just fits over the top of the magazine. Make it small; such that you can flip it off with your thumb.

Mag in off hand side pocket. In an emergency; grab the mag with off hand, flip off cap with thumb; drop mag in gun; insert full mag in gun.

 

[PaulMason]

I am curious how many people carry pocket guns as their only gun compared to those that carry them as a backup. I may start a poll.

Are you talking about Police Officers?

If you only carry one gun; it is your primary gun.

I doubt many civilians carry 2 guns on them - excluding things like backpack and car. They would have to know they are going into a dicey situation. If so, why go?

 

[PaulMason]

I saw your range report and am glad you like your new gun.
But I'll stand by my post. The ammo is way too expensive compared to 9mm, is (obviously) less effective, and for 99% of my carry scenarios a small 9mm is just as easy to carry. I couldn't give my gf my LCP after she shot my LC9S Pro and my (15+1) G43X. There have been other posts with size comparisons and I think the difference between the LCP and a small 9mm is under an inch. I carry IWB and find width to be more of an issue than length, so I've given up on all double stacks.

I went with the S&W bodyguard 380 vs the LCP because I could shoot the S&W better. One aspect of this whole small gun 9mm vs 380 is physics and your ability.

If you can shoot the small 9mm accurately, multiple shots, UNDER STRESS - great. I can not.

I suggest all of you who have 2 small guns 9mm & 380 try to make multiple shots with each while under stress. Go to an outdoor range when it is empty. Start 30 yards back from the line. Run as fast as you can to the line, draw and fire - no stopping, no pausing. No trying to get a perfect stance or grip. Time it if you can.

I'd rather have a 380 I can hit with then a 9mm I miss with.

 

[PaulMason]

Goog

I understand what you're saying.

I found a chart comparing the PPK/S and the LCPII in terms of velocity. Probably the closest you'll find without a whole lot of digging or doing the work yourself.

If we go with the 90 grain numbers, looks like the LCP will cost you about 100 feet per second, so 970 feet per second turns into 870.

If you get top-quality .380 rounds that can make it to the high end of the FBI's acceptable range for penetration when shut out of a normal .380 pistol, it would stand to reason that they should still make it within bounds when they lose 10% of their punch.

Chart:
View attachment 956510

Link:

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .380 Auto Results

(statement of intent)

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

Google ballistics by the inch.

 

[PaulMason]

Something to consider instead of a new gun - extra magazine and do you really need the extra 4 round.

My S&W bodyguard 380 is 6+1 = 7 - 4 less then then 11 being discussed.

• Do you really need those extra 4 round?
• If you carry an extra 6 round mag for the s&w you now have 2 More rounds then the 11

There is also a mag extension that adds 1 round - so the difference is now only 3 rounds

Impact S&W Bodyguard +1 Grip Extension "The Original"

Impact S&W Bodyguard +1 Grip Extension "The Original" . Impact Guns +1SWBG. Impact Guns +1 Grip Extension for Smith & Wesson Bodyguard .380 Made to fit the S&W factory magazines for the Bodyguard .380. Enjoy a more controlable firearm- and one more life saving round! Our testers reported they wer...

www.impactguns.com

Think about it before you buy a new gun.

 

[PaulMason]

Each person has to decide what they are comfortable with. However, your argument that you can carry an extra magazine with the Bodyguard to have more rounds than the Max makes the assumption that I can't carry an extra magazine with the Max, which then puts me at 21 rounds.

Or I can use the extended 12 round magazine, which is more of a capacity advantage over the S&W Bodyguard, albeit the size increase with the extended magazine may take this out of pocket carry size, for me anyway.

Like anytime a new product comes out, whether it be a car, a computer, or a gun, you have to look at what you have and what meets your current needs. Maybe you are happy with your current setup and if so, carry on! I didn't have a pistol that I was happy with for pocket carry, so the Max filled that role for me.

You don't understand the post. If you have a gun with 7 rounds, you could use a second mag instead of a new gun if you want more rounds.


But my question about the incremental rounds 3 to 4 you didn't address.

The Statistically Perfect Gunfight | USCCA

This is the statistically perfect gunfight. FBI stats say the average gunfight includes three rounds fired over three seconds from a distance of 3 yards.

www.google.com

3 shots??
9 feet??