expect slower slide travel and possible fte with weaker ammo.

Get a 9mm conversion bbl or sell it for a 19 I’m thinking

 

Yes just get a 19 or a s&w 380ez. Some people are recoil sensitive and never shoot enough to get used to it. If it’s a gun for cc self defense changing RSA’s isn’t worth risking reliability period.

 

Q1 - In general a heavier RS, would increase "felt" recoil and muzzle flip/dip. Q2 and Q3 are really starting to take away from what makes Glock's so cool. KISS

 

before I would try any gadgetry I would try to become more "recoil proof", 22 LR trainer, 9mm barrel for your 23.....

OR

take up reloading and custom tailor your ammo, you can make some down right soft shooting "bunny fart" loads, even in 40 S&W, and a lot cheaper than store bought ammo

 

take up reloading and custom tailor your ammo, you can make some down right soft shooting "bunny fart" loads, even in 40 S&W, and a lot cheaper than store bought ammo

https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/ammunition_40lite_091806/138689

This.

Also might be useful to know the goal of recoil reduction. Is it less ‘felt’ recoil in the hand, less perceived recoil, or faster splits? Shooting 9mm helps with all three of those categories.

For me personally, 90% of perceived recoil is muzzle blast. Double plugging while on the range goes a long way toward mitigating this.

On the other hand, real recoil is the tendency for the pistol to try to slip while the slide reciprocates. If it moves in your hands at all (same grip isn’t maintained between shots), it’s almost impossible to have consistent speed and accuracy. Gripping harder helps. Like really, really hard.

All things being equal, heavier recoil springs lead to a more violent recoil impulse. Particularly more muzzle dip, which makes fast splits more difficult. Cruise around EnosForum and you’ll never see competition guys going to heavier springs. They want the slide to track flat, hence they run the lightest springs they can safely get away with.

For self defense, stick with OEM and practice/learn diligently.

 

Can't say for sure. In the past, I have messed with springs and always regretted it. For me, the lesson was if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

You cannot change the force component of recoil without changing ammo or caliber. You can change the timing of it (aka "felt" recoil), but even that, there is a limit to how much it can be reduced with the same ammo.

Your best bet is the two suggestions mentioned here. For the range, learn to reload. .40 cal was the second caliber I started reloading back when .40 was more expensive, and I've developed some practice loads that will rival even soft 9mm rounds all day long in recoil.

For self defense, I wouldn't trust the "powder puff" loads. Switch to 9mm.

 

Spot on. I’ve reloaded some extremely soft .40 and 10mm rounds and I don’t feel that snap everyone talks about with these calibers. As an added bonus, rounds loaded very lightly are easier on your gun and will be more accurate generally. I usually load most of my practice rounds at the light end of the velocity scale and if you follow the guidelines for minimum values for the powder used, you should have no problems with cycling.

The suggestion to use 9mm for defensive rounds is a good one. However, there are some very light for caliber projectiles on the market that move very quickly and do their damage from speed rather than weight. These rounds, such as the Underwood Xtreme Defender in all calibers do very well in tests and recoil is substantially reduced. Expensive though and you wouldn’t want to use them extensively for practice. I’ve bought some recently in a few calibers and still trying them out. Combined with my reloads for practice, recoil is no longer a big deal, even for the bigger calibers like 10mm.


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I think there are two things to consider, physics and you. If you want a really powerful handgun then you have to accept some weight and recoil. If those are a problem then choose a lighter round and work on accuracy.

 

IMO, loading powder puff loads is fine for plinking and games where no power floor is required, but for using to help with recoil for the average shooter that is getting his or her 50 rounds in every month or two on a paper target, when they finally shoot some full bore SD loads it'll be flinch city and will never want to practice with full power loads. Full size steel 9mms and .22s are options for a reason, or just deal with it.

 

Question 3: Then, there's this DPM Recoil Reduction System. There's this review from 2015. Sounds legit. Some swear it reduces by 20%, or at least very noticeable.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ3jF8nhfNU


All in all though, I'm trying to comprehend the effect of the recoil spring, whether installing a lighter one, or a heavier one. I have a 22# spring and stainless rod I'd like to install. What can I expect?

I've installed a DPM system in several of my pistols of varying calibers. What I've noticed is:

.45 ACP - A LOT of difference
.40 S&W - Some difference
9mm - Only a little bit of difference

So my approach suggestion is:

45 ACP - Definitely worth it
40 S&W - Probably worth it
9mm - Probably skip it.

It also varies a little by gun, as some have VERY stiff recoil springs to start.

I haven't experienced any reliability issues with any of them.

 

Recoil has to be managed by the proper stance and grip, no matter if it's a .22LR or a 10mm. And shooting issues are 99% the shooter. Learn how to grip the gun properly, or get a much heavier full size gun (than a Glock) in a caliber you can manage. Compacts and sub compacts having the most recoil because of the least amount of grip area and lower weight.

SIG X5 weighing in, as shown, at 45 ounces. You can hardly get a full size small frame Glock to over 31 ounces. Huge difference.

Hold you gun like this.

 

Recoil is the rearward reaction to discharge. Flip is a rotational reaction due to the fact that you support the gun below (not directly behind) the bore axis.

The way you manage recoil is to ignore it and pay attention to the sights and target. The way you manage flip (which is much more important with an un-compensated gun) is mostly grip.

How you grip the gun is more important than how hard you grip it. Applying axial forces to the frame is much more effective than applying lateral forces, which can also cause the sights to track skew.

Yes, adding mass to the gun helps resist both forces, although not nearly as much as effective grip. The main benefit of adding mass is to help keep the gun steady. Triggering and transitions would be 2 examples of that.

On recoil springs, you need to balance spring energy with ammo power so the sights return neutrally, the slide travels fully with appropriate dwell time and interacts properly with the mag spring, and the gun feels properly balanced to you.

Spring choice is partly subjective, specific to the individual shooter.

 

If that video is almost 5 years old, there ought to be some real world experience out there, no?

 

Can't say for sure. In the past, I have messed with springs and always regretted it. For me, the lesson was if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Same. Waste of money

 

Heres what you do....go shoot a .44 cal revolver....then pick up your G23...it will feel like powder puff- grin

My G23 is the snappiest Glock I own or have shot. You might be able to tweak it...but there is always a compromise.

I have a 9mm KKM conversion barrel for my G23 that makes it a good shooter for friends/family that are recoil sensitive....that might be your best bet.

 

This is almost hilarious. Everybody is assuming I'm complaining about recoil. Or that I don't know a 9mm is less recoil. So far, nobody has answered one of the questions. My G23.3 is only 1 of 4 Glocks I own. I do have a G19, and I have a Lone Wolf 9mm Conversion barrel for the G23. My questions are technical. As in, "how does it work," and "how can I do it." Not, "how can i get away from from it." I can manage the recoil on the G23 as well as anyone can. Having the extra snap is well worth the trade off for having a round that does more damage - more kinetic energy. I'm gonna end up getting a 357 Sig barrel for this G23, and will have questions then on some adjustments. Interesting though, how everyone digressed from the actual questions. Maybe it was my choice of wording in the question. I'll post another question later, differently worded, with the same purpose.

 

This is almost hilarious...

Re-read your OP... you didn't clarify that.

Anyway - best of luck to you.

 

I've installed a DPM system in several of my pistols of varying calibers. What I've noticed is:

.45 ACP - A LOT of difference
.40 S&W - Some difference
9mm - Only a little bit of difference

So my approach suggestion is:

45 ACP - Definitely worth it
40 S&W - Probably worth it
9mm - Probably skip it.

It also varies a little by gun, as some have VERY stiff recoil springs to start.

I haven't experienced any reliability issues with any of them.

Thanks man, you actually answered some of my questions!

 

I've changed springs on my G20.2 and did not notice a significant difference in recoil. Went to a Wolf 20, 22, and 24. Did this to try and get Underwood ammo to function OK. Had no success as the slide was cycling so fast it would trap the 2nd round before the first fully ejected. Added Wolf mag springs and still would not work right. Finally cured the issue by getting a G20.3 which seems to work fine with Underwood. I could not tell any difference in recoil between the springs.

 

I switched out my 3rd generation G-32 RSA for a Wolff stainless steel guide rod and Wolff 20# spring. The pistol went from great to awesome, and everyone I've had shoot it in a blind test agrees there's a noticeable mitigation of recoil impulse with the Wolff system. I might add there's never been a malfunction of any kind with any brand FMJ or JHP range or self-defense ammo.

 

To help with recoil reduction use a tungsten rsa and place a light on the muzzle rail. That is about all you really can do. That will hold the muzzle down a bit. The rest is up to you.

 

I’ve been using the DPM system in my G43s, and they seem to be working pretty well as intended with absolutely no ill effects on the guns’ reliability. The G43 is a small gun that can be pretty snappy, especially when shooting +P rounds. (I carry HST 124gr +P or Underwood XTP 124gr +P in my 9mm guns.) The DPM system makes a difference when I shoot my carry ammo.
I’m sure it also make a huge difference when shooting .40s&w.

 

I switched out my 3rd generation G-32 RSA for a Wolff stainless steel guide rod and Wolff 20# spring. The pistol went from great to awesome, and everyone I've had shoot it in a blind test agrees there's a noticeable mitigation of recoil impulse with the Wolff system. I might add there's never been a malfunction of any kind with any brand FMJ or JHP range or self-defense ammo.

Man, I really appreciate this info. I'm definitely going to get a 357 Sig barrel for my G23.3 (I personally believe 357 Sig is as a good as it gets if someone needs 1 all around ammo). The reason I got a G23 instead of G32 is that there are more options for drop in barrel conversions. 9mm, .40, 357 Sig, and now there's a 22 LR slide kit. Anyway, about the Wolff, I need to compare and contrast between Tungsten and Wolff. I got a 22# spring, and had a feeling it was too much. Based on your info, I'll likely get a 20#. Have you ever used a recoil buffer?

 

To help with recoil reduction use a tungsten rsa and place a light on the muzzle rail. That is about all you really can do. That will hold the muzzle down a bit. The rest is up to you.

It seems like what your suggesting would work more just for the barrel flip, and not the reverse "jolt" from kick back. Im hearing from more than one source now that a Stainless rod with a heavier spring makes a noticeable difference. Then one can also add a recoil buffer. You're right though, barrel flip is a big part of the recoil process. To have extra weight up front can help balance it downward. I'm still learning.

 

The added weight of a Bull Barrel is supposed to help.

 

View attachment 682976

Yep. And I've personally seen it on human targets, again and again, working as a first responder/paramedic. Often after bringing in a gunshot victim/crime suspect, we could watch as the surgical team took over. I have no ability to doubt it after seeing so much of it. The 40 does far more damage. Shots to the thigh, that penetrate to the bone are very telling. Shattered bones. lk Also shoulder shots - shattered collar bones, shoulder blades, etc. A .40 will blow a knee to pieces. Not saying the 9mm didn't do damage as well, but 40 and 45, also 44 mag - stronger than 9mm. No question from my experience.

 

So, I took a quick look at two Federal HST loads...147 Gr 9mm and 180 gr 40 S&W. They are my preferred loads for each caliber. Where is the magic coming from?

 

So, I took a quick look at two Federal HST loads...147 Gr 9mm and 180 gr 40 S&W. They are my preferred loads for each caliber. Where is the magic coming from?

View attachment 684954

As I mentioned in my original statement - more kinetic energy from a .40. Looks to me like it's right there on your chart. "Energy in Foot Pounds." I don't know about you, but I see it all the time in ballistics tests on youtube. A .40 tears up a concrete block faster than a 9mm. You can watch lots of ballistics tests online.