[Genso]

I've had a real bad itch to buy a 1911 lately... I decided I should rent the nicest 1911 I could find to see if I really felt it was worth it.

Note: I've only owned one real 1911, about 10 yrs ago when I sold my Colt Delta Elite 10mm. I've never owned any .45 caliber gun.

The following range report is not scientific and isn't meant to prove anything. I just thought it would be fun to share.

I rented an Ed Brown Alpha Elite full size stainless 1911 .45 ACP. Attractive looking gun, especially the "chain link" dimples it used on the grip. Reminded me of the Kimber Raptor, which I think it one of the most attractive 1911s out there.

The gun felt heavy and tight. No slop between frame and slide. There's something that just feels nice to load those fat .45 ACP cartridges. However, the range gun I rented was filthy, and the mag felt a little sticky when I loaded it. While firing it, I had five failures to feed (one per mag on five occasions), but I blame the sorry state of the rental gun - later, after I finished, I made sure they tagged the gun for maintenance. Yet... I couldn't help but to think for $2500 it sure would be nice if it didn't jam. I doubt a Glock would jam just from being dirty.

I shot it side by side with my Glock 35 MOS with Venom Vortex 3MOA rds. The first thing I noticed was dense and solid the 1911 felt vs the Glock, which felt top heavy and hollow. The recoil from the .45 was satisfying, but not much different than the Glock in .40 in terms of perceived muzzle flip and time to reacquire target. At five yards, both were equally accurate. However, I really felt the 7-rd magazine in the Ed Brown was very limiting. it was a shock and surprise each time the pistol already ran out of ammo.

I know comparing a red dot sight gun to an iron sight gun is apples to oranges, but I expected the Ed Brown to be noticeably more accurate at 25 yards. However, I found they were about the same. Although, for me at least, as a new red dot user, using a RDS still requires a lot more concentration. I shot both pistols from a standing weaver stance, thumbs forward, in moderately slow fire. As a dark target at 25 yrds is pushing the limits of my vision, I was happy to keep them in the black.

Overall, I'm glad I rented the 1911 because I just saved myself $1400 (Kimber Raptor) - $2500 (or something slicker). I won't be buying a 1911 any time soon, or if I do, it'll be something "cheap" like a Ruger 1911. The capacity of a Glock (or any polymer gun) and the relatively similar accuracy based on my skill and intended use just can't justify the price and heft of a 1911, even if its just a range toy. I'm still curious about the 9mm 1911s but I'll save that experience for another day.

Update: One week after I wrote this report (168 responses later!), the pleasure of shooting 45 ACP was still on my mind so I went ahead and picked up a used Kimber Stainless Raptor Pro II. I really liked shooting 45 ACP and I see no reason why I should limit myself to just 22, 380, 9mm, 40, and 10mm handguns in my collection! The Kimber Raptor for me is the right balance of looks and fit and finish without going off the deep end of the 1911 price scale. As Tom Gresham says, I have more guns than I need, but not all that I want! Cheers.

 

[AZ Husker]

There is a reason you see so many more quality 1911's on the professional circuit than Glocks.

 

[Genso]

I have no doubt. Its that line of thinking that led me to believe I needed a 1911. However, as my target demonstrated, I'm not a professional circuit level shooter.

 

[AZ Husker]

Oh but you could be with plenty of practice. The trigger pull alone is worth the 1911.

 

[jbglock]

1911 isn't the gun people make it out to be honestly. Even for a range toy I'd rather have a MOS Glock.

Keep in mind that the 1911 as you see isn't even as Browning originally intended and he later went on to design guns that improvements over the 1911.

 

[bac1023]

I'd much rather have the 1911. They're some of the best shooters around. I never had a single failure with any of my Ed Browns.

 

[bac1023]

1911 isn't the gun people make it out to be honestly.

You're right. Its actually much better than most people make it out to be, especially those that haven't a clue. :whistling:

Tight tolerances dictate that they need to be somewhat clean and lubed to stay reliable. That's simply physics. Its not a cheap piece of plastic.

 

[Bruce M]

Was that black carbon like soot on the muzzle of the Ed Brown? If so I can only imagine what the inside of the gun looked like. I can imagine how a good cleaning or maybe even a half a second squirt from an aerosol can of Pam into the innards might reduce the failures to feed a bit.

 

[Jim Watson]

Keep in mind that the 1911 as you see isn't even as Browning originally intended and he later went on to design guns that improvements over the 1911.

True, the Brown has the A1 changes plus sights you can see and a beavertail so you don't get the traditional hammer bite. It is also tightly built so you cannot neglect it the way you can a service pistol like a Glock... or a real 1911.

I would like to know which later guns Mr. Browning designed as improvements over the 1911.
The BHP was his last centerfire pistol and I don't consider it an improvement except for Its larger magazine capacity which I am sure Genso would like.
(The BHP was an offshoot of a response by FN to a RFP by the French. They reneged on the deal and it was years before Msr. Saive could pump up the design with 1911 features coming out of patent protection and get something on the market.)

 

[Green Dragoon]

At the private club I belong to, I'm "known" as a 1911 guy (although I shoot a CZ 75 TS more these days). So, when people are having issues with their 1911's, they'll often ask me to check it out.

In every case, without exception, I put MY magazines in and presto.....the firearm works. Like magic.

OP: I would bet you that the magazines were the culprit, especially on a rental gun.

FWIW, I use Wilson mags.

Apologies ahead of time: I have never used dogma on GT...having said that, a Glock will never be a quality 1911 with quality mags.

 

[willieH]

1911 isn't the gun people make it out to be honestly. Even for a range toy I'd rather have a MOS Glock.

Keep in mind that the 1911 as you see isn't even as Browning originally intended and he later went on to design guns that improvements over the 1911.

The design has endured over 105 years and the production of 1911 patterned pistols is in the millions. No doubt you can find examples that fail just as you will find even more that perform satisfactory. It must be phenomenal to have an omnipotent consciousness to cipher the mindset of each 1911 owner and consolidate their collective thoughts into a singular opinion that "isn't the gun they make it out to be."

Browning designed the pistol to meet the requirements of a major buyer. His intent was to sell guns and if they wanted redundant safeties, he obligingly designed the grip mechanism. To say a design can't be altered, improved or modified is silly. I don't want the crappy sights of the original and the modified ejection port makes sense. In the lower pic, this double stack with integrated plastic grip in a 1911 pattern is an awesome range toy I'd rather have than a Glock.

Just because I have these preferences doesn't mean other guns are inferior, because some clearly are not. I've own several Glocks, but have gotten rid of all but two. Glocks are good dependable and affordable pistols, however the rest of the gun world has evolved producing firearms with equal or superior qualities.

 

[RonS]

I hope you will find some one to let you shoot a properly cared for 1911 before you rule out the entire class of guns based on a rental gun. Between the dirt and who knows how many rounds on the springs who knows what kind of shape it is in inside.

 

[Pier23]

I got no dawg in this fight. Glocks are great tools, robust, consistent, but not a gun that stirs my soul.

I too wondered about the mystic of the high-end 1911 world, and in my snobbish poverty lens I viewed such as the proclamations of superiority from the voice of a person justifying a $3000 1911 vs a $500 Glock for something that ultimately is just tossing a chunk of lead out of a tube by gas pressure.

Then I played with a Les Baer Monolith Heavyweight, and for the first time I _understood_. The Les Baer was simply making holes where I thought they should be. It was, for me, that day, the most consistently accurate pistol I had ever fired, and the accuracy and consistency was utterly painless and transparent.

Will I allocate $3000 of my meager shooting sports budget to a Baer? Possibly not. Probably not. But I now understand why people who can do so do so.

Oh, my personal "high-end" 1911 is a Ruger SR1911 which I picked up for around $750. <sigh>

 

[plp]

I'm still on the fence about a 1911, as there is a Ruger SR-1911 at the LGS for 550. I decided if it is still there next Friday I will take the plunge.

The owner bought it and had multiple failures of all types using Tula steel cased ammo, put about 30 rounds through it then put it in the closet until a few weeks ago. It is stainless and have no clue what was on the holster he stored it in, but whatever it was, stained it and it will have to be buffed to get the stain out.

I've never had any success with any 1911, but love .45 ACP. My Witness is one of the range regulars and am as accurate with it as pretty much anything I own.

 

[tc215]

I've also never had any failures with my Ed Brown. It feeds absolutely anything, even ammo that makes my other (expensive) 1911's choke.

 

[fnfalman]

All I know is that a real M1911 is a Colt. Everything else is a copy.

 

[Bruce M]

How far away is the Ruger for you versus the Les Baer? How much more if any, accuracy do you get from the Baer if any, compared to the Ruger?

 

[Pier23]

How far away is the Ruger for you versus the Les Baer? How much more if any, accuracy do you get from the Baer if any, compared to the Ruger?

You are asking very good, pointed questions, and sadly I can only respond with generalities and senses, not hard data.

First, I LIKE the Ruger SR 1911. It always goes bang, and has sufficient looseness that I am confident it would work well in adverse conditions, though I have not tested that premise. I have, for me, more accurate pistols, my Hi Power works well for me, as do my Steyrs and Walthers, but now we are comparing 9 and 40 to 45ACP. That isnt fair. Mt Sigs P220 in 45 I shoot better than the Ruger, but that could be because of more experience with them, and my fav 220 is a massive steel West German beast that absorbs a lot of recoil.

So what do I remember about the Baer that made me drool?

The trigger is one. Think "fire" and the weapon fired. Like, but very predictable trigger, very clean break. So I could align the sights, fire, and the Baer has not moved. I didnt jar my sight alignment in the act of pulling the trigger.

Recoil impulse on the Baer was very subdued. The slide action was very smooth - something I found on all the high-end autos I shot that day. The Baer was TIGHT in a good sense. It had the feel of being a unified mechanism working in concert within itself, not as a group of disparate pieces each going about its assigned task.

Meaning, my sight picture deviated little, reacquisition was very quick and natural, follow-on shots instinctive.

All of this is impecise, but overall. I got the sense that the Baer was simply a better piece of machinery. My Pinto got me to work, but my VW allows me to enjoy the drive.

As for accuracy, going from memory, so that is the caveat and my escape clause: Ruger, 7 yards, the rounds are placed within a hand covered by wrist and the first joint of fingers. The Baer was within my center palm. Say, 50% less area in the spread.

 

[jbglock]

You're right. Its actually much better than most people make it out to be, especially those that haven't a clue. :whistling:

Tight tolerances dictate that they need to be somewhat clean and lubed to stay reliable. That's simply physics. Its not a cheap piece of plastic.

Frankly the last 1911 style gun I had was a Les Baer. I always shied away from the budget 1911's after having seen so many spend a small fortune trying to make them as accurate as a Les Baer is out of the box. Ed Brown used to be a marketer of custom parts for those that didn't buy a nice gun to start with. Has it become a respectable custom brand now?

 

[bac1023]

Ed Brown used to be a marketer of custom parts for those that didn't buy a nice gun to start with. Has it become a respectable custom brand now?

Yes, for quite a while now