[Leigh]

Uh, it's not his "Navy days" Jack Ryan but rather an M1 specifically chambered for 7.62 x 51 (.308).

Certain military matches required specific caliber-chambering and many (if not most) of the rifles were tricked-out (within spec) by US Army/USMC armorers who knew what they were doing.

From specific handloads to glass-bedded stocks and whatever else was/is legal, the weapons were open sighted, long range, tack drivers.

The rifles shot better than the folks who shouldered them then, and they continue to do so today.

If anyone claims that they can "outshoot" an open-sighted M1 or M14 (M1A) (with their battle rifle of choice), they are simply talking out of their a$$.

Better yet, show up at Camp Perry and learn the hard way...........

 

[fasteddie565]

I can't speak for yours or your steel.

All I'm speaking for is mine. What I did and what I saw. And I showed you a picture of the steel, the holes, the rifle, and the side of the steel with a bullet laying on it for a size reference and loaded rounds that made the holes laying right beside the holes for a size reference on them. I've not shot 100's of rounds from Garands. I've shot maybe a grand total of 100, from two rifles, both 30-06, and none of that was AP rounds. They weren't even spire point, and killed one deer with one rifle. They weren't pointy at all, they were lead, and flat.

That much is not from memory. It's not last week or a year ago of back in my "Navy days". One of those holes was made the day I took the picture.

What else do you expect?

I don't expect anything at all. You shared a story about shooting steel and so did I. Pretty cut and dry. Mine are AR500. The black tip rounds were armor piercing, that's why they went through. Oh and I was never in the Navy, the rifle is a US Navy variant of the M1 Garand in 7.62 x 51. So hope fully my explanation was less offensive?

 

[Glolt20-91]

Some years ago on this forum I tested a European SS109 against a very thick railroad tie plate, post 239 here:

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/furniture-bullet-penetration-test.1188579/page-12#post-15000760

 

[Glolt20-91]

Back in the day when surplus '06 was plentiful and cheap, I was able to shoot hundreds and hundreds of '06 ball and AP through an '03 and 03A3, from memory, the AP will hold its own.

Of interest, I tested some American manufacture M855 and it did not penetrate the tie plate at any angle.

So, back to the OP's question about Garand viability, the answer is yes. Yes the Garand is heavy, but so is an AR-15 rifle with a thermal vision scope on top and a bipod. The versatility of the Garand is with its bullet selection and load out, from 150gr SSTs to 175gr Partitions for big game/predators.

I have AR choices/options, but I also have bandoliers of loaded en bloc clips should the task warrant.

 

[AK_Stick]

Look up the address in google maps street view.


Its not a classy area.

 

[Big Bird]

If you have better choices--and there are many--then no.

If its all ya got...sure. Better than nothing.

The whole concept of survival is to use what you have. So use what you have...

Owning a rifle doesn't mean you are a marksman any more than owing a Steinway Grand Piano makes you a musician. FAR more important than WHAT firearm you use is HOW WELL you can shoot it... So practice and competition will improve your skillset.

I'd be far more worried about a guy with an M1 Garand and a Master Class Highpower rating than your average run of the mill guy with an AR and 10 30 round magazines that doesn't know how to zero his weapon.

 

[Big Bird]

It has to do with the pressure curve of the powder used, much of the current commercial ammo will have too high a pressure at the gas port even though within SAMMI specs for chamber pressure. If too high pressure is let into the gas system it can bend the op rod, this usually happens with slower burning powder used to obtain higher velocity. When I reload for the Garand (mine is 7.62X51) I use IMR4895 which, as I understand it, is the original powder used in 30-06 ammo for the Garand.

This is correct. The Garand system was designed around the standard GI Ball load...150 grain or so with a medium burn rate powder like 4895. I used a lot of Accurate 2520 in my match loads with Sierra 168 gr HPBT Match ammo. In a Garand you want to avoid the 180 grain loads and above using a slower powder like 4064 or 4350 etc...so off the shelf hunting ammo with heavier bullets or some of the "hot" loads like Hornady superperformance will be bad ju ju for the Garand in terms of long term reliability vis a vis a bent op rod. Likewise, light loads using fast powders may not even cycle the action. Medium weight bullets with medium rate powder will keep your Garand happy.

 

[agtman]

* * * In a Garand you want to avoid the 180 grain loads and above using a slower powder like 4064 or 4350 etc...so off the shelf hunting ammo with heavier bullets or some of the "hot" loads like Hornady superperformance will be bad ju ju for the Garand in terms of long term reliability vis a vis a bent op rod. Likewise, light loads using fast powders may not even cycle the action. Medium weight bullets with medium rate powder will keep your Garand happy.

All true, ... unless you run one of the adjustable M1 gas plugs (e.g., Schuster Mfg). Those plugs allow you to regulate the gas system to the energy level of the '06 ammo being fired.

By adjusting the Schuster plug in my '06 Mini-G, I was able to 'tune' (soften) the violence of firing over 20-rds of Federal's 220gn Hot-Core SP ammo without any cycling issues (product sku #3006HS; boxflap MV = 2400fps/2815fpe).

Definitely a "Minute of Grizz" bear load x 8 :thumbsup: ...

If I lived in Alaska, my '06 Mini-G would be riding in a scabbard on the ATV, locked & loaded with that ammo.

 

[faawrenchbndr]

My CMP Special Grade RM1, a VERY capable rifle, even today.

 

[agtman]

My CMP Special Grade RM1, a VERY capable rifle, even today.
View attachment 386741

Those two are awesome. I really like that 'C' stock on your 03A3.

 

[cadillacguns]

Great standoff rifle to hold them back at a distance.

 

[Stevekozak]

Yes it would work fine, as a lot of vets would attest. It's very capable and it's battle-proven.

Compared to other options, it's also low in capacity, unnecessarily heavy, slow to reload, difficult/heavy/cumbersome to carry substantial amounts of ammunition for, and slower to achieve follow-up shots. So (again, compared to other options) you do get a very effective projectile, but you just don't get many of those projectiles, it's slow to replenish the few you do have, it's hard (or at least cumbersome) to carry many of them to do that replenishing, and your shot-to-shot times are less fast.

Basically it has the same positives and the same negatives as a semiauto 12-gauge shotgun. It's very effective, but imo not hugely efficient.

That's not meant as an insult to it. I have a 12-gauge semiauto and if it was "all" I had within reach to defend myself, I certainly wouldn't mind. But for all those reasons above, the shotgun or garand wouldn't be my first (or even fifth) choice.

These are more or less my thoughts. If what you happen to have is a Garand in a shtf situation, you are adequately armed. If you are going out to buy a shtf weapon, there are definately better options available.

 

[agtman]

So what might it look like? ... a small group of preppers armed with M1 Garands and pistols fighting off an assault on their community of retreats, or some jointly protected area in the Post-Apoc?

Well, an enterprising young man named Miles Vining "sort of" answers that question in a practical way in his TFB video about a "recreation" (not re-enactment, since it was all live-fire) of WW2 Small Unit/small arms tactics.

Maybe you've seen it, but if not, then for Garand-lovers, Garand-doubters, and the merely Garand-curious, I'm providing the YouTube video link below.

The video involves recreating a WW2 U.S. Infantry patrol caught in an engagement against a bunkered "enemy" whose position they are trying to take.

There are two groups of "infantry" units involved in this video. One group is dressed in period-correct U.S. uniforms and is the "Machine Gun Crew."

The other group of young men, and the relevant one to keep your eyes on, is dressed as a group of preppers might be dressed in 30-degree weather - coats, stocking caps, sweatshirts, gloves, etc. Most are armed with M1s and .45 1911s. Some have M1 carbines. All wear some form of belt gear for carrying en bloc clips, carbine mags, pistol holsters, etc.

Miles give a thorough briefing about the run-up to the event, the organizational background, and the problems some participants encountered with their Garands, and the always important after-action "lessons learned." I think Miles deserves a lot of credit for pulling-off a "recreated" firefight with these Old School weapons that pretty closely mimics what Small Unit "fire & movement" must have looked like in the fields and forests of mid-1940s Europe. (Okay but without modern SUVs in the picture )

If you want to skip Miles' background discussion and get right to seeing all the Garand "run & gun" action, scroll to the 5:38 mark.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ILO_mpy0ezA

Here's the link to Miles' TFB write-up of the re-creation, "Lessons Learned:"

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/16/lessons-learned-ww-ii-squad-live-fire/

 

[walt cowan]

never butt stroke a old guy with a AR. he'll just crush your skull with his grand.

 

[Dave Hill]

Old and crusty? i wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of one.

 

[AK_Stick]

never butt stroke a old guy with a AR. he'll just crush your skull with his grand.

The last person I saw get butt stroked with an M-16 broke her jaw and orbit, and stone cold knocked out.

Yeah, the walnut stock of a Garand is tougher. But that plastic stock will wreck you just as quick.

 

[walt cowan]

The last person I saw get butt stroked with an M-16 broke her jaw and orbit, and stone cold knocked out.

Yeah, the walnut stock of a Garand is tougher. But that plastic stock will wreck you just as quick.

Had my m1a1 stock hanging up (just oiled it down). Bent down under it to pick up an item.... came up and knocked myself out! :dancingbanana:

 

[agtman]

Got clips?

:laughabove: :waving:

 

[agtman]

FYI, here's a recent YouTube vid in which an M1 owner runs his Garand through a "tactical carbine" course of fire intended for qualifying police officers armed with ARs. Interesting for what it shows - shooting and reloading an M1 over a course designed for the M4.

If you want to skip all his initial commentary, just move right to the 3:45 mark:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TkrTqz6daWk&feature=youtu.be

 

[jack76590]

I believe it depends on what type of SHTF situation you envision. At one extreme is the "Red Dawn- head for the hills situation." Here I would want something light with light ammo as in AR.

But if you are preparing for general civil unrest as in Ferguson, Mo, the King riots (Martin and Rodney), which I consider more likely, the Garand is fine. You will not be concerned about weight in all probability and you may want to disable or shoot thru vehicles, advantage Garand. Plus, Garand is not viewed as much of an evil rifle as is case with AR and AK, so if you need to defend your actions in the aftermath that is a plus for Garand.