[TacticalSpeed]

Recently picked it up & only one range trip, but most rounds were low and/or left.

I slapped my laser bore sight in the other day & the only way the front sight would line up w/that is lining up the dots, not the front sight even with rear sight.

Is that correct for these pistols or is mine a bad apple? I would think it is incorrect since these are supposed to be designed for the combat hold, right? That is how I shoot all my pistols and this is the only 1 I am having this challenge with

If this is normal, does anyone know what size Dawson rear sight I need to buy in order to have it shoot accurately with the combat sight picture?

 

[Maccabeus]

That isn't typical of my M&Ps.

I do have a Shield .40 that shoots a bit high at 25y and needs a 6 o'clock hold.

Most shoot fine with a center hold or combat hold.

 

[TacticalSpeed]

That isn't typical of my M&Ps.

I do have a Shield .40 that shoots a bit high at 25y and needs a 6 o'clock hold.

Most shoot fine with a center hold or combat hold.

THanks. My Shield Plus SC & Shield Plus 4" PC shoot perfect with combat sight picture. Going again this weekend. if I still have this challenge I will reach out to S&W

 

[fastbolt]

THanks. My Shield Plus SC & Shield Plus 4" PC shoot perfect with combat sight picture. Going again this weekend. if I still have this challenge I will reach out to S&W

You might call them. From what I remember, the sights are installed using a heavy hydraulic press, with the slide mounted in a fixture. Instant installation. The sights, like other parts and assemblies, come out of bins in the production cell. That said, never underestimate the possibility of an incorrect or out-of-spec sight base/post to come out of the bins of sight parts, or one for a different model to have found its way into a bin.

They might double check the parts list and have Parts mail you another front and/or rear sight (especially if not a NS). When I was previously ordering a lot of sights from S&W (as an armorer), for a variety of pistols, I was told that they had different height sights available to correct elevation issues, if necessary.

 

[fastbolt]

Oh yeah, I forgot ....

I've always used the "cutting the bullseye" sight picture, even with sights equipped with dots. I was taught to think of the dots being there to allow a quick sight alignment, if there wasn't necessarily time for a very precise and small sight picture. When I started shooting wooden clothespins clipped around the cardboard back board, I 'cut the spot' I wanted hit with the aligned top edges of the front/rear sights.

The exception was the original Big Dot sights (Ashley), and now the standard Dot made by the newer XS company. Those are 'cover the POI with the center of the Dot', out to maybe 15yds (depends on bullet weight, of course), and then at longer distances shift the POA/POI to the top edge of the Dot.

 

[dla]

S&W went with the combat sight picture.

I don't like it.

 

[TacticalSpeed]

S&W went with the combat sight picture.

I don't like it.

That's how I always shoot, but the round goes nowhere near the aim point with this pistol

 

[dla]

That's how I always shoot, but the round goes nowhere near the aim point with this pistol

The round goes to the front dot.

 

[TacticalSpeed]

The round goes to the front dot.

I'm well aware

 

[cciman]

Why assume it's the gun, not the laser sight ??¿????¿¿???????

How much did the laser cost compared to the gun?

Can you make POA=poi with the iron sights?

What's your level of handgun skills?

 

[cciman]

Lasers suck. Make sure they're up to the task and purpose.

 

[TacticalSpeed]

Why assume it's the gun, not the laser sight ??¿????¿¿???????

How much did the laser cost compared to the gun?

Can you make POA=poi with the iron sights?

What's your level of handgun skills?

It's a laser bore sight and it has been accurate in every other firearm I've used it with. It's not an actual laser attached to the gun.

To get The sights lined up where I want the bullet to go equals lining the dots up, not the traditional front sight center of the rear sight and the top of them even.

 

[fastbolt]

...

To get The sights lined up where I want the bullet to go equals lining the dots up, not the traditional front sight center of the rear sight and the top of them even.

Are you saying that aligning the top edges of the front/rear sights makes the dots unaligned, and vice versa? That's just ... weird.

My first suspicion would be to wonder if the wrong rear sight base or front post ended up on the gun. I could see it more easily being a wrong front post having ended up in a bin, since it's small and harder to eyeball as being different (by a few thousandths).

The other (worse) thought would be that the CNC computer missed cutting one or the other of the dovetails correctly, and the software that self-checks itself slipped a software cog. FWIW, the dot matrix 'code' (machined dimples ) on the inside/top of the slide can be checked with a laser to identify the specific CNC machine, shift and machine monitor/operator when the slide was manufactured. However, correcting such a problem would involve them replacing the slide (which means they'd want the whole gun back to examine, on their dime).

I only had that happen once with a slide, out of 2 different vintages of 3rd gen guns (maybe 500 each). It was on a late production 4006TSW. The rear sight base kept shifting significantly leftward for the issued user under extended recoil, which ought not be possible since the dovetail cuts are narrower on the left (because the sights are designed to go in from the right, and out to the right). The first repair involved replacing the rear sight base, but that didn't resolve the problem, as the new sight base shifted too far leftward under extended recoil. It required a trip to the factory so they run the lasers over the slide to check the tolerances, and then it came back with a new slide, with a properly cut rear dovetail to resolve the annoying issue.

Let us know the outcome.

 

[TacticalSpeed]

Are you saying that aligning the top edges of the front/rear sights makes the dots unaligned, and vice versa? That's just ... weird.

That's exactly what is happening

 

[italianstallion]

S&W went with the combat sight picture.

I don't like it.

Glocks and SIGs use a combat sight picture, what brand do you like that has a non-combat sight picture ?

 

[dla]

Glocks and SIGs use a combat sight picture, what brand do you like that has a non-combat sight picture ?

I can't speak about Gen 4&5 Glocks, but Gen 2&3 did not use a combat picture.

 

[cciman]

It's a laser bore sight and it has been accurate in every other firearm I've used it with. It's not an actual laser attached to the gun.

To get The sights lined up where I want the bullet to go equals lining the dots up, not the traditional front sight center of the rear sight and the top of them even.

That's called a combat sight picture - put the dot over the target and pull the trigger without moving the dot.
It is the correct sight picture to use with combat or duty guns. Great at close distance and fast inside the torso, center mass hits.

 

[TacticalSpeed]

Range trip today went fine. Not sure what the deal was, but no need to fix anything on it. Weird, but I'll take it

 

[0311INF]

Range trip today went fine. Not sure what the deal was, but no need to fix anything on it. Weird, but I'll take it

Thats good, because removing M&P sights is not easy