[Belkar]

The video clip that started basically a storm on some of the pages I follow. A lot of name calling, a lot of snarky twitter responses. I even made a mean meme.

I don't want to skew the results, so I'm not going to vote. But here's my personal take:

A weapon mounted light on a home defense weapon is a not negotiable must have.

For my out and about carry weapon, I often don't have a wml - for example, pocket carrying my G26. I do however carry a decent handheld, a Modlite OKW 18650. It has the Thyrm Switchback on it, so it could be pressed into service as sort of a weapon light, in that I could Illuminate a target while firing. Though I have holsters that will accommodate a wml on a firearm, I trend away from them for weight and comfort reasons. An exception would be open carrying while camping. In those cases I have a Safariland Level II (Now a Dara for the G20) that will accept the TLR 1 HL.

I once read someone make the statement, that as a concealed carrier, if I've drawn my weapon, a threat has already been identified. That made sense to me.

Between a 5 year old and 4 Cats, stuff goes bump in the night in our house often. Several years ago, Spooky (RIP) my Siamese/Tortoiseshell cat got into a cabinet, and bumped my French Press out and we awoke to the sound of breaking glass from the back of the house. I showed up with my G19X with the TLR on it.

While there was no threat beyond a scared cat, the wml did save me from stepping on broken glass barefoot.

I'm sure this is an ongoing and deeply personal subject, but I would find your thoughts very interesting.

 

[Danke Glock]

I had a WML on a home defense gun, but I’ve abandoned it in favor of handheld lights. The probability of me needing the gun is very low and a light even lower. I’ve trained with handheld lights and can use them in the home or out and about, so I didn’t have much need for a dedicated WML.

 

[sciolist]

Anyone with any understanding of shooting and basic common sense understands that a WML is a big advantage in a situation where you have to get hits on a bunch of targets in the actual dark.

Try running dark stages with and without a WML, and see which has the higher HF. But realistically, that situation is not going to occur in a CHL context. And the WML does not replace a separate light, which is probably more important for most people to carry than the gun itself.

 

[Jonah77]

A weapon mounted light on a home defense gun aims a loaded weapon at whatever I shine the light on.

I keep Surefires right next to any home defense gun I may need. I do not want to point a loaded and cocked weapon at my 5 year old getting a juice box at 2am.

Illuminate. Identify. Act.

If I am in combat and clearing houses? Different story.

 

[oldmick]

My personal preference is a standalone light. Still using a Surefire E2D Defender.

 

[Cranky old cop]

The video clip that started basically a storm on some of the pages I follow. A lot of name calling, a lot of snarky twitter responses. I even made a mean meme.

I don't want to skew the results, so I'm not going to vote. But here's my personal take:

A weapon mounted light on a home defense weapon is a not negotiable must have.

For my out and about carry weapon, I often don't have a wml - for example, pocket carrying my G26. I do however carry a decent handheld, a Modlite OKW 18650. It has the Thyrm Switchback on it, so it could be pressed into service as sort of a weapon light, in that I could Illuminate a target while firing. Though I have holsters that will accommodate a wml on a firearm, I trend away from them for weight and comfort reasons. An exception would be open carrying while camping. In those cases I have a Safariland Level II (Now a Dara for the G20) that will accept the TLR 1 HL.

I once read someone make the statement, that as a concealed carrier, if I've drawn my weapon, a threat has already been identified. That made sense to me.

View attachment 1275103

Between a 5 year old and 4 Cats, stuff goes bump in the night in our house often. Several years ago, Spooky (RIP) my Siamese/Tortoiseshell cat got into a cabinet, and bumped my French Press out and we awoke to the sound of breaking glass from the back of the house. I showed up with my G19X with the TLR on it.

While there was no threat beyond a scared cat, the wml did save me from stepping on broken glass barefoot.

I'm sure this is an ongoing and deeply personal subject, but I would find your thoughts very interesting.

I have used WML on bedside guns but I prefer hand held lights in general . Hand helds are more versatile in my view

 

[Belkar]

A weapon mounted light on a home defense gun aims a loaded weapon at whatever I shine the light on.

I keep Surefires right next to any home defense gun I may need. I do not want to point a loaded and cocked weapon at my 5 year old getting a juice box at 2am.

I'm going to say not entirely true. In a dark house, low ready with the light on illuminates well enough that I can see what's going on without necessarily pointing my firearm.

I suppose -how- you search counts for something as well. If my daughter isn't in our bed (often) or hers (well lit room with nightlights) then I know to expect she's probably getting a drink or something.

 

[Danke Glock]

A weapon mounted light on a home defense gun aims a loaded weapon at whatever I shine the light on.

I keep Surefires right next to any home defense gun I may need. I do not want to point a loaded and cocked weapon at my 5 year old getting a juice box at 2am.

Illuminate. Identify. Act.

If I am in combat and clearing houses? Different story.

PS-I have thick skin, but the boomer meme is pretty inflammatory and asinine IMO

The flood from a WML will illuminate a room in the house without needing to point it at a target. Point a flashlight at your ceiling or floor and you’ll see how much it lights up a room.

 

[Sam Spade]

Had to change an oil filter the other day. Had a helluva time getting it off; no matter how hard I worked that Phillips-head, the filter wasn't impressed. What's that you say? Wrong tool for the job? That's crazy talk.

Look, define your problem, then get the tool. I agree with the OP: a CCW gun is used to react to threats. If you can't identify the threat, how did it manage to identify you as prey?

Handheld flashlights are there for when you don't want/need a gun muzzle in play, and that's the overwhelming number of cases. If you're searching the area, whether for your car keys that you dropped or to understand what's out there, they're the choice.

WML are for hunting. They're for the times when you wholly expect to get in a fight; you may not actually get in one, but you expect to. Building searches are the leading example of this--there may not be anything out there/in there, but you have good reason to believe that there is. At that point, the light is a good thing. Yes, you're going to muzzle stuff, maybe people. That's the nature of the situation. No, you don't have to muzzle stuff. If you don't understand how to bounce light, then you need to fix that deficiency in your training. The light gives you that final fail-safe before anyone gets shot, so that the right person gets shot.

There is no light on my CCW/off-duty gun, because see paragraph two. There is a light on the house gun/duty gun.

 

[Danke Glock]

Anyone with any understanding of shooting and basic common sense understands that a WML is a big advantage in a situation where you have to get hits on a bunch of targets in the actual dark.

Try running dark stages with and without a WML, and see which has the higher HF. But realistically, that situation is not going to occur in a CHL context. And the WML does not replace a separate light, which is probably more important for most people to carry than the gun itself.

It’s definitely an advantage for multiple target engagements and frankly most people will shoot better with a secure grip using a WML versus having to use a handheld and grip the gun. For a home defense weapon, the biggest advantage of the WML, for me, was the ability to have a gun, light, and ability to on the phone to police, since you’ll have one hand free.

 

[MAG40 Student]

For a LEO, sure. As a private citizen, I've never felt the need. I prefer the versatility and speed of the handheld. Besides, flashlights, like tracer rounds, work both ways. I'd rather flash my handheld when held away from my body, than use a WML held in the center of my mass.

YMMV.

 

[ringel05]

I have three with light/laser combos mounted and all are HD only. One is my G22 which I'm thinking about EDCing which means I may remove the combo and add a laser only. Why lasers? Because I hate dot/scopes on handguns purely for aesthetic reasons and lasers work perfectly well for me.

 

[Sam Spade]

It’s definitely an advantage for multiple target engagements and frankly most people will shoot better with a secure grip using a WML versus having to use a handheld and grip the gun. For a home defense weapon, the biggest advantage of the WML, for me, was the ability to have a gun, light, and ability to on the phone to police, since you’ll have one hand free.

Ah! Now for y'all's consideration, I submit that if you're using a WML, you ought to be using one with a remote switch, because being forced to turn it on with your trigger finger is bad.

 

[Danke Glock]

Ah! Now for y'all's consideration, I submit that if you're using a WML, you ought to be using one with a remote switch, because being forced to turn it on with your trigger finger is bad.

I agree with you. Having to manipulate a switch to activate the light in front of the trigger guard is something I didn’t like about many WML. Casually doing it in a non-stress environment seems easy enough, but under stress, leading up to a potential gunfight, I could envision something going wrong and possibly uncorking a round.

 

[frankr2]

In my use case I have come to my own conclusion that I have vanishingly minimal use for a weapons mounted light. Instead, I routinely carry a separate flashlight when out at night. I additionally wear a headlamp when walking the dog at night. And on my bedside safe I have a button that turns full bright all the smart lights in the house if I needed. I have practiced holding the flashlight if I needed to hold and shoot based on the technique I read in Mas's book over a decade ago. Seems good enough for the vast majority of circumstances. Then I read in Tom Given's book that he has found like no examples of a private citizen needing a light anyway and that things like parking lot lights are real.

Where I live, my biggest threat actors are coyotes, buck deer that are pissed at me and my dog, and loose aggressive dogs. And I have a flashlight and lights in my house if the alarm goes off at 3 AM.

 

[Maccabeus]

...
A weapon mounted light on a home defense weapon is a not negotiable must have.
...

I'm not opposed to them in theory. I may even get one someday.

But I wouldn't call it a must have.

Especially considering I spent years doing patrol work going into dark, unknown places close to daily often with a weapon in hand and I somehow succeeded in my tasks without a WML. I'm much more familiar with my own home, know where all the light switches are, and not only have a hand-held ready to go (in my pocket by day and another by the bed at night) but also know where all the back-up flashlights are found throughout the home.

 

[IBreakthings]

HD - If for no reason else, I need a free hand to open doors, usher my wife and dial 911 during a home invasion.

 

[sciolist]

It’s definitely an advantage for multiple target engagements and frankly most people will shoot better with a secure grip using a WML versus having to use a handheld and grip the gun. For a home defense weapon, the biggest advantage of the WML, for me, was the ability to have a gun, light, and ability to on the phone to police, since you’ll have one hand free.

I agree.

For carry, the WML is specialized hardware and shooting with a handheld light is definitely specialized software. The WML adds mass and weight to your gear, but helps to reduce flip.

Obviously most people are never going to shoot or even draw on the street, so from that standpoint the whole carry gun is a bit of a solution looking for a problem. I 100% support CHL carry, but even in the relatively unlikely event of a defensive encounter, most of the solution is probably proactive and passive - ie. don't go there, cross the street, be aware, etc.

And also generally speaking, 99% of people carrying guns would benefit by far the most from adding shooting proficiency, as opposed to more hardware which requires even more proficiency that they likely lack.

So the WML is emblematic of the general problem that some people like the idea of personal defense/CHL carry, so they buy some hardware, shoot a little bit, and consider the problem 90% solved. But in reality, to the extent there even is a problem, it is at that point 10% solved, with the remaining 90% of the solution being in additional shooting proficiency.

 

[Bradley T]

I voted "don't have one" because I don't have one.

 

[Belkar]

I agree.

For carry, the WML is specialized hardware and shooting with a handheld light is definitely specialized software. The WML adds mass and weight to your gear, but helps to reduce flip.

Obviously most people are never going to shoot or even draw on the street, so from that standpoint the whole carry gun is a bit of a solution looking for a problem. I 100% support CHL carry, but even in the relatively unlikely event of a defensive encounter, most of the solution is probably proactive and passive - ie. don't go there, cross the street, be aware, etc.

And also generally speaking, 99% of people carrying guns would benefit by far the most from adding shooting proficiency, as opposed to more hardware which requires even more proficiency that they likely lack.

So the WML is emblematic of the general problem that some people like the idea of personal defense/CHL carry, so they buy some hardware, shoot a little bit, and consider the problem 90% solved. But in reality, to the extent there even is a problem, it is at that point 10% solved, with the remaining 90% of the solution being in additional shooting proficiency.

I had, like most people, forgotten to bring that up.

A low risk lifestyle counts for a lot in preventing use of force encounters.