[Mikial]

Ads for laser dry-fire training systems like Strikeman, LaserLyte, Mantis, and others are everywhere. They're supposed to improve accuracy and trigger control while saving range trips and money on ammo. How many people use them and how often?

I appreciate your comments about how you train, but also please be sure to VOTE IN THE POLL. Thanks, everyone.

 

[racer88]

I have almost all of them. Use them here and there. I've been doing a lot of live fire practice and training, so I haven't used them as much lately.

They definitely have value. My most recent is the Mantis X system. Pretty slick.

 

[frankr2]

I use the Mantis X almost daily for two years. Never a laser system though. I also just use a shot timer into par time drills with a dryfire mag, counting clicks. It seems to me that looking for laser dot on a target is one of the less useful things to train. The mantis X gives me all the information without the distraction.

The truth is none of this stuff is necessary but a timer. One can become a USPSA grandmaster with Ben Stoeger or Steve Anderson's books, neither of which mention any of these gizmos. The thing I see the most value in any of these systems is to help with the ability to call your shot. Then it becomes a matter of center your aiming system in the middle of your target area and call the shot! Simple, minimal mental effort during the shooting process.

You master skill in dry fire and confirm in live fire.

 

[racer88]

It seems to me that looking for laser dot on a target is one of the less useful things to train.

I would agree... IF you're actually looking for the dot.

But if you're using a laser detection system or target, it's just like a paper target with holes. I have the LASR system, which is pretty cool. I even have an infrared laser SIRT pistol, where YOU can't see the laser "impact." But the LASR camera does and marks your "target" on the laptop. Pretty neat!

The thing I see the most value in any of these systems is to help with the ability to call your shot.

Also agree! That's also one of the great benefits of a "red dot" optic.

The mantis X gives me all the information without the distraction.

The Mantis X is pretty slick tech. And it can be used with live fire, too.

I'm thinking I need to break out my gizmos and use them more! I've been live firing SO much over the last two years.

 

[frankr2]

Also agree! That's also one of the great benefits of a "red dot" optic.

Yeah, all the cool kids are running dots these days. I am sure I will eventually do so as well. I'm just not ready to drop that much coin on an Aimpoint Acro or similar. Focused on getting as good as I possibly can on iron sights. At least until I make Master class in GSSF and/or Steel Challenge.

If I were to switch to the dot for competition purpose, that would reduce the cross training element for self defense purposes unless I ditch everything I have and go just with a optic equipped pistol.

As a private citizen in a non LEO role, that is not something high up on my priority list.

 

[frankr2]

OP, one of the absolute best things you can do in dry fire does not involve pulling the trigger. Set a timer for 0.60 seconds (< 1 second). You goal is to look at a small point on a target on your wall and to draw from the holster and have your front sight post (or dot) arrive at the point you are aiming out by the beep without conscious thought. If you are training for GSSF like me, do this from the low ready. DO NOT PULL THE TRIGGER. This is not a trigger race drill. Dot at point you aimed with your mind in 6/10ths of a second, ready for the trigger press. Then build from there.

 

[racer88]

I'm just not ready to drop that much coin on an Aimpoint Acro or similar. Focused on getting as good as I possibly can on iron sights. At least until I make Master class in GSSF and/or Steel Challenge.

If I were to switch to the dot for competition purpose, that would reduce the cross training element for self defense purposes unless I ditch everything I have and go just with a optic equipped pistol.

I don't want to hijack this thread, and there are PLENTY of other threads about that.

I'll just say... Get back to me when you hit your upper 50s. LOL!

That said... I still practice with both irons and dots. I carry a dot now.

 

[Taz]

Ive used MantisX and their Laser Academy. Neither are necessary, but both add some fun/variety to dry fire sessions.

I try to run them a couple of days a week. I find that I end up using the Mantis more than the laser, though.


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[JGIORD]

I dry fire with an I-Target pretty much daily. I also have the Mantis X system and use that occasionally. The Mantis is very unforgiving in its criticism but the apps are pretty helpful.

 

[DeltaFiveBravo]

I have MantisX10. I bought it for training during the Covid shutdown. I'm not that impressed with it.

I find a Pink Rhino laser cartridge and a shot timer provide more intuitive, immediate, and useful feedback than the MantisX app.

First, use a laser boresight to learn to work the trigger without moving the pistol. Focus your gaze on the dot on the target and ignore the sights. It's a superior method, IMO, than dryfiring and looking at the sights.

You can also use the laser boresight to learn how misaligned your sights can be but still be able to land a good hit. This is important information. When somebody says, "See what you need to see to get the hit", this is what they are talking about. Acceptable sight alignment varies with distance - the closer the target then the less alignment is needed. Spending time trying to achieve perfect "equal height, equal light" is wasted effort at close ranges.

When you become proficient in working the trigger and not moving the pistol then progress to a laser cartridge and shot timer. Focus your gaze on the aimpoint and bring the sights into your line of gaze when you present the pistol to dryfire. Shooting with both eyes open you'll see the where the laser "shot" lands on the target - no need to refer to an app on your cellphone. At close range don't shift your focus from the aimpoint to the sights - you only need to do that for longer shots. Sights are just a visual reference.

 

[Lagamor]

I have the MantisX too. It is very critical of my trigger pulls. When I practice with it I can definitely see good results at the range, but dryfire is boring and I don't spend enough time doing it.

 

[frankr2]

On my Mantis X I was pulling multiple 94%+ shots support hand only last night. Even a 98%. Now THAT IS WHAT I am talking about. I like to practice accuracy mode and both hands so as to remain balanced.

I have pretty much stopped using the Mantis X as much though as I have focused on doing simulated GSSF courses of fire with my timer. Both with and without the dry fire mag. I finally broke down below 3 seconds on a simulated 5 to Glock stage but that is pretty spicy. I am training my eyes to keep moving to the center of the next target. I am firing as soon as I see my sights on target. So this obviously does not include recoil so the sights are dead on much, much faster.

 

[babue]

I have a Mantis X but I do not use it anymore. I prefer a laser bullet and the app that goes with it. I am not interested in bullseye type of accuracy which to, me the Mantis X seems more slanted to. I shoot action pistol type of events, so the combination of speed and "A" zone accuracy is my goal. That also transfers to real life better.

 

[racer88]

I am not interested in bullseye type of accuracy which to, me the Mantis X seems more slanted to.

Interesting. To me, Mantis X is not about bullseye accuracy at all. In fact, it doesn't track or record accuracy. It doesn't know where on the target I'm hitting. Mantis can't see that. But it DOES help assess movement during the trigger press extremely well. This helps with working on / improving grip and trigger control.

 

[MikeH2]

I use it for trigger press analysis both dry and live fire. I should use it more, but the need to rack the slide in-between trigger presses makes it less useful for any drill that has multiple activations. I know that dry fire mag exist for some pistols, but not mine. I do find it useful for what it does.

 

[RWBlue]

I have an old laser system which I admit I got lazy and haven't used in more than a year and I am not getting to the range as much as I would like. (long story) I am sitting in front of the tv at night when I am tired and slow dry firing dry firing to work on trigger control of multiple styles of triggers (SA, DA/SA, DA, Glock...). So, I know my laser system helped and was thinking of installing it today, but saw this thread.

You seem to have the most experience with the system for me and for others who come to this thread.....
1. Would you recommend this to a complete newbie? i.e. I have a friend who has never shot a gun. If he needed to learn how to shoot ... After a live fire range session...
2. Would you recommend the full package with pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, or do some of them suck?
3. Could this be used to practice for AppleSeed, or DOE, or NRA style shooting?
4. Could this be used to see which gun is better for an experienced shooter? As I said, I have been playing with SA, DA/SA, DA, Glock... triggers. How about a novice choosing their first gun?
5. What other things can it do I haven't thought about?
6. What can't it do? Novice went to the range shot. Then buys one of these. What can't they learn here that they need to go back to the range for? OR IF buying for a police dept. What do they need to stress in live fire because they can't do it with electronics?

Price of the full package today is $250. 9mm costs ~.25. Can this package save the average person $250 or 1000 shots of range time.

 

[Jeff Stark]

I have the Pink Rhino laser cartridge, and I found a system called Straight Shooter that you can implement for little to no extra money. Free app for the phone. Free targets on the site. I have seen marked improvement with my flinching and anticipation. Try it out yourself, at Straight Shooter Laser Kits (yankeethunder.com) . They've also got a Handgun Sniper Masterclass that I've tried out. I like it also.

 

[dfr5014]

I have the Pink Rhino laser cartridge, and I found a system called Straight Shooter that you can implement for little to no extra money. Free app for the phone. Free targets on the site. I have seen marked improvement with my flinching and anticipation. Try it out yourself, at Straight Shooter Laser Kits (yankeethunder.com) . They've also got a Handgun Sniper Masterclass that I've tried out. I like it also.

Why don't anyone talk about Strikeman? I got this one for 99 bucks with 9mm, it's been a month now and have not opened the box yet? I guess just not too excited yet, is this a good system or did I blow another hundred bucks?

 

[Mikial]

Why don't anyone talk about Strikeman? I got this one for 99 bucks with 9mm, it's been a month now and have not opened the box yet? I guess just not too excited yet, is this a good system or did I blow another hundred bucks?

I'm not sure why more people don't mention it. I use Strikeman and I like it. It does everything I need it to do and it's one of the most inexpensive systems available. I have cartridges for 9mm and .45 ACP. I suggest you give it a try. It's especially useful for improving drawing from concealment and getting a first-round hit. Set it up and then wear your regular street clothes and holster. When the beep sounds, draw from concealment and shoot. The system will tell you what ring you scored in, which is really helpful.

I primarily use and carry SA/DA guns, so I can also do follow-up shots without having to rack the slide, although every shot is DA.

 

[Mikial]

Thanks to everyone who participated in my poll. Hope y'all have a great week.