I don't remember him trashing it too much. He was impressed by it some. He also stressed I believe shooting in full auto speeds up wear vs if you semi auto. I wonder if the grouping would have improved after a real good cleaning of the barrel. The upper stayed running until it got really dirty then they cleaned it and lubed it up

 

Wouldn't shooting anything in full auto speed up wear?

I've had plenty of PSA uppers and other parts and never had a problem with any of them. Granted, I am not stress testing them or beating the **** out of them.

 

Basically the take away that I had was if that was all you could afford, then it’s a good option, but if you want a bugout/survival rifle get a more expensive/higher end rifle.

 

Is Grand Thumb affiliated with Garand Thumb? There were some clearly stated shortcomings for the reviewed weapon as one would expect for that low end AR niche, but the overall review seemed more positive than negative. Who would reasonably expect a $400 AR to hold up like one costing 4X or more?

 

It seems as though they were, at times not the whole time, running it full auto, suppressed, little to no maintenance, etc. 4-5,000 rounds...

The only real difference, is on their lower ends barrels that are gonna be nitrided vs chrome lined, and not CHF. Still all typically 4150 CMV steel. CHF barrel will do better, chrome lining also better for high wear stuff. Nitrided barrels are also pretty damn tough. Ask me how I know.

I would be interested to see how a more expensive gun would hold up to 5K. Or, how it would've held up with some periodic maintenance.

My first AR was a PSA, also first PSA. I ran 6K through it in 2.5 years. About a grand was steel case. It still shot accurately, and just fine. It was never a sub MOA gun. Only thing I did was replace gas rings at like 4.5K. Wasn't really needed, but the BCG wouldn't stand on its face without the carrier sliding down onto the bolt, so that's a small indicator to replace gas rings.



Same guy. I'd love to see a DD or BCM be subjected to the same tests. Same barrel grade, especially important. CHF vs CHF, etc.

As long as component specs are the same, and fair, you'd be shocked. These higher end guns are still being made for a lot less than they're worth. This isn't some Taurus argument of "jUsT aS gOoD", but PSA knows with basic forged receivers made of 7075 and good basic barrels and BCG steel grades, it ain't that hard. Embellishments like fancier milling to receivers and stuff or fluting of barrels, etc does add cost, but those are completely cosmetic and do not affect overall function or reliability.

$500 rifle and $2500 in ammo is a way better investment than a $3000 rifle. Yes, others have said that, and they're right.

 

Gun costs less than your mobile data and Internet per year. Did this one have a nitrided barrel or chrome lined? A simple barrel replacement will have it back. Don't do mag dumps.

4000 rounds of 556 will cost about $1600 to get there. How long will it take you to get to 4000 rounds?

Be realistic in your expectations. No magical thinking.

 

For what it costs and what they did to it, that's pretty awesome performance. From skimming through the video, that seems to be the take of the reviewers, as well.

4,000+ rounds of full auto with a suppressor = about 8,000 rounds without a suppressor + X% more for auto instead of semi-auto. Yet the barrel is still performing better than the military standard for an M4.

What do you expect it to do that it doesn't?

 

Garand, and he didn't trash talk it. He simply compared it to better quality uppers.

 

I saw thr video and didn't get a negative review. I have one of those he tested and am not going to shoot 4-5000 rds probably ever. So for me the average owner of an economy AR I'm satisfied even had I not seen the video. I've only put maybe 200 rds thru it but life gets in the way but I know the next time It goes with me to the range it will shoot very well. I could never dump thousands into a gun of any stripe, Basic firearms work for me and I can afford the ammo for them.My Ar build cost me $420., my 80% Glock clone was $380., Glock 19- free.

 

correction. It went 6k rounds before degradation of accuracy. Even then the gun still functions fine just losing accuracy. I’m impressed that a $400 rifle could 6k rounds of full auto suppressed fire, (granted only 3-30 round mags at a time). Let’s be realistic. For what it is it did fine. The average owner of a PSA is not going to fire anything close to that much ammo typically. PSA is good for what it is, an entry level way for people to get into firearms. I view it as buy the $400 rifle, shoot it, when accuracy degrades then replace the barrel with a higher quality barrel. Spend $400 on the gun, $400 on the barrel, and you are in $800.

 

No. They said it shot out and "gave up the ghost at 4.5K rounds"

 

Is this a click bait post?

 

Not at all. It show's a PSA Freedom upper being shot out in 4K rounds with camera and such...kinda the best test I've seen on video?

 

When it comes to sustained full auto fire in a 5.56, nothing is going to last long. Barrels get red hot and start drooping, gas tube can rupture, and ammo can start cooking off in the chamber.
If you had a barrel that was made from cold hammer forged machine gun steel (41v45), and the standard spec chrome lined bore, they might last a tad bit longer.

The only thing these 'tests" prove is that if you fire anything long enough, it's going to fail.

A better test would be taking one of these uppers and fire a couple hundred rounds in a standard range session of normal shooting and see how long they last.

 

There's some weird psychological phenomenon that guns should last forever, no matter what is thrown at it.

The barrel in a AR is considered a wear item - it can be destroyed in a single firefight. Firing pins can break, springs can wear out. If you buy the base rifle cheap, you can afford to replace or upgrade parts as they wear.

 

For those that will put 100 rounds through it per year, it will likely last their entire lifetime. While that might not describe you, it describes probably 99% of AR-15 owners. Just my 0.02

 

This. 100% while I don’t shoot as much as I used to, I’ve put a lot of rounds through different ARs. I’ve got a build that has a 14.5 inch Noveske Afghan barrel and it’s not as accurate as it once was. I own two PSA builds that are truck guns because they were just too cheap not to buy at the time. Would one of them be my go to? Absolutely not… but I’d trust them to get me home. I thought the review was accurate and honest. I think PSA is a great company that offer affordable options and they are great for a lot of people. A lot will eventually upgrade if they’re like me and get bitten by the bug.

 

Throw a high quality barrel and bolt on it for 300 ish and go for 8 to 10k the performance was not terrible I watched the review , most people that own them will never hit that much abuse .

Heat kills barrel accuracy especially rapid or full auto fire

 

Based on my average of going to the range almost every week and when I take an AR, I normally put at least 200 rounds through it. It wouldn't take me that long

 

Garand Thumb is coming from special weapons guy's point of view on this video, it's the kind of review I enjoy watching, including the bolt comparison (with Knight's Armament) and extractor spring wearing out at 5K rounds, which is normal.

His review on the PSA JAKL

 

He has grown on me the last year or so. He does some interesting non firearm videos about survival and escape/evasion.

 

I can't afford 5.56mm / .223 rem now, much less burning through 4,000 rounds of it in a short amount of time.

IF the ammo cost comes down, I'll be buying a PSA. Right now, it's 9mm all the way.

 

a clown doing his show...

 

Flannel Daddy fan are we? LOL

 

Really a fan of someone who shoots more than a box on camera and then has an opinion, sure.

 

Is Grand Thumb affiliated with Garand Thumb? ...

I think it's his father's father.

Is this a click bait post?

Seems like it. My first thought was, "Did he do a second video where the upper performed poorly?"

As everybody has already pointed out, they shot it full auto and suppressed. And it still did great.

For first time and casual buyers looking for an entry level rifle and who are probably just going to plink with the thing from time to time, a rifle like that will probably last the shooting lifetime of many owners. Serious shooters will either start with something higher end to begin with or upgrade soon enough once they get a taste for ARs.

 

FWIW, competition shooter Ben Stoeger, along with other competition shooters, say something similar about Aero Precision complete uppers.

They pair Aero lowers with BCM complete uppers to assemble a reasonably low cost gun that will withstand volume shooting. They refer to this setup as a Reddit Build.

 

For the cost it's a great choice for the weekend warrior who rarely shoots. I'm no apologist and I cannot buy items like that BUT I'm glad so many non-shooters have options that can work for their personal HD/SD. I hope they get some training and trigger time but we all know the reality of that.

Take it for what it is. Not every low cost (Glock isn't far from that; although really a mid-cost gun) weapon is as good as this one is. Just isn't going to work for a legitimate shooter. It'll kill the bad guy at standard SD/HD ranges rather well.

 

I was just looking at their Spectre lineup yesterday, and they seem decent for the money. I'd probably save up to the $1,500-$1,700 range and get a BCM RECCE though.

 

Yeah, for the gun to go 4.5K, before major issues arise, is actually quite astoundingly good. IV8888 did a meltdown test on a somewhat decent AR years ago. Full auto, mag dump after mag dump until it died. Barrel blew right before the gas block at 840ish rounds, IIRC.

They did a similar test with a basic FSB PSA upper, and I think the handguards caught on fire (totally fair BTW) and then I think the gas tube went around 600 rounds.

@Jason D nailed it. Barrels will pretty quickly get to transformation temps, around 1300°F, if fire remains pretty sustained. Once you reach that, you kill the heat treat on the barrel. All bets are off, at this point.

A combat load out is typically 210-300 rounds, and if that gets exhausted in minutes in a firefight (yes it can, and has happened), well... You're out of ammo for at least a bit, and hopefully you have something else to shoot. Exhausting your whole combat load out in 5 or 10 minutes means you're in a world of hurt.

Machine guns and even most LMGs have swappable barrels for these reasons. On a little carbine, even the M4 Socom profile barrel will overheat pretty quickly, and it needs time to chill back out.

That's why the Socom profile came to be. The original M4 government type barrel profile was blowing out when Socom was running them early in the GWOT like 2002-2003. They ran them way harder than rear echelon units, for which the M4 was originally intended.

Man, I can't do a short post on this stuff lol 😆

 

It's not quite a shock an upper will be quickly trashed by multiple full auto mag dumps.

 

I need to learn to post like you. To the point, accurate, correct. 😆

 

PSA used to offer some uppers with FN CHF barrels with the "machinegun" Chrome plating those versions would crush this test.

 

Yeah, that's what mine is. An older "Premium", with the FN CHF barrel. I put it on an '87 Colt lower. It shoots good for me.

 

like this one https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...ory.com/psa-14-7-mid-lenght-premium-5-56-nato-1-7-13-5-m-lok-pinned-welded.html