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FTRB and extraction issues in P80/Patmos build

7.4K views 58 replies 12 participants last post by  Callducks7  
#1 ·
Well, I thought this would be a FUN project. So far it has not been. This is my first one. Before anyone responds, I would like you to know I've built about a dozen AR's and do action jobs on my Ruger revolvers with stones, not a big Dremel fan for most things. Anyway, this is my first Glock build, but it's not my first gunsmithing outing by far. But it has been the most frustrating I've ever done.

Details:
  • Polymer 80 19 lower
  • Patmos Revelation slide kit
  • Patmos lower parts frame kit

Just so you know, I've hit the usual culprits, not adequately clearing the recoil spring channel, and not having the spring for the takedown latch flush with the bottom of the recoil spring channel. I've also rounded and polished the firing pin safety plunger and stoned the mating surface on the trigger bar that interfaces with it. I've cycled the slide a couple hundred times by hand and it works flawlessly when not actually loading a round. I've used both a Glock 19 magazine and a P-Mag in my range testing, and both feed reliably, and both lock the slide back properly when empty.

So, off to the range today with 200 rounds, thinking I might have some breakin issues my first 50 rounds, but expecting pretty clear sailing after that. No such luck. For this 200-round range test session, here were my issues.

Issues:
  • The slide will not go into battery that last 1/16th inch on 85% of my shots. About 15% it will and I can take a second shot, but the other 85% I have to smack the rear of the slide to send it all the way home. There was no improvement at all as round count rose.
  • About once per magazine it will fail to eject and the case is stuck backwards in the ejection port, typically.
  • Ejected brass is everywhere, hits me in the head, flies behind me, off to the side, very inconsistent ejection.
  • For some odd reason, the trigger pin walks out of the frame to the right side as I shoot. I had to pound it back flush three times during the 200 rounds.

Soooooo frustrating. I was so irritated on the way home, I thought of handing it over to a local gunsmith, but, my pride kept me from driving right over there with it, so went home and did a little Internet sleuthing. What I've discovered is that these builds typically are tight but break in quite nicely most of the time, and 200 rounds usually does it.

I also found that some have had issues with reliable ejection and have suggested the APEX TACTICAL SPECIALTIES INC - FAILURE RESISTANT EXTRACTOR FOR GLOCK, at $56, and it gets high ratings. I'd like to know if anyone here has used one before I go on a parts buying spree.

At least one YouTuber had consistent FTRB issues much like mine, and said replacing the stock (I think) 18# recoil spring with a 20# recoil spring cleared up the issue for him completely. I'll likely get the steel recoil spring guide if I replace the spring, as I think it's just a good idea on principle, although Glock is fine with a polymer guide.

I am delighted with the pistol's feel, its shootability, and accuracy so far, but I'd love it a lot more if the darn thing was reliable! Here is a shot of the polished striker safety plunger and the trigger bar that I polished.

Image


And here is some light stoning I did before the range trip to ease the front and rear edge of the locking block on the barrel. I did a little light stoning on the inside of the ejection port with that long square stone, as well, thinking it would help the last bit of going into battery. But the range trip was still awful.

Image


Thoughts on a fix? Take it to a smith? Toss it in the bin and chalk it up to experience? I'm open to any and all thoughts. Oh, ammo was IMI 115 grain HP. I used Tetra gun grease on the rails expecting it to help with breaking in.
 
#2 ·
I'm not an expert but not a complete noob at this point. Could be the extractor / extractor depressor, maybe? Which one are you using?

Also could be a fitment issue between the slide and barrel hood.

@CBTENGR is around here and knows his stuff. Or you could come over to the new builder's forum (link in my signature) and run it by the gang there.
 
#3 ·
@racer88 New builders Forum, nice! Thanks for the link!

I'm using the extract that came with the Patmos LPK, but I've seen another thread where a Glock Gen4 extractor stopped his extractor issues, which inclines me to get that Apex ejector. A bit pricey, but the thing is a brick right now, so may as well.

I just cleaned it and racked it another 100 times by hand and it goes fully into battery EVERY time, so I'm also inclined to think a steel guide rod with a slightly heavier recoil spring might be just the ticket, also. At least for the first 1,000 rounds. If it starts behaving, I can likely go to stock spring weight after 1000 round breakin.

But, please, any other idea chime in! Thank you all in advance. I'll check out that link.

Cheers,

John
 
#5 ·
The slide will not go into battery that last 1/16th inch on 85% of my shots. About 15% it will and I can take a second shot, but the other 85% I have to smack the rear of the slide to send it all the way home. There was no improvement at all as round count rose.
I used an engine break-in lube in the slide grooves. I painted it in with a small size artist brush.
The engine assembly lube is called Microlon, Lubriplate #105 is a similar white lithium-based grease.
Engine break-in is critical and these lubes are over-kill for a pistol slide.
Prior to doing that, I couldn't even move the slide. I thought I had a disaster on my hands.

About once per magazine it will fail to eject and the case is stuck backwards in the ejection port, typically.
Ejected brass is everywhere, hits me in the head, flies behind me, off to the side, very inconsistent ejection.
Sound like you're extracting good, but ejection is not reliable.
Glock has gone through 3 generations of 9mm ejectors over the years.
The original is the 336 which for me has be sketchy. You might have this one or possibly a generic.
30274 is the Gen4 ejector and IMO is an improvement.
47021 is the Gen5 ejector and IMO is the best to date 9mm ejector
To acquire 47201 you have to buy TMH 47208 which has the 47201 ejector installed.
Pull it and install it in your Gen3 TMH.
Image


For some odd reason, the trigger pin walks out of the frame to the right side as I shoot. I had to pound it back flush three times during the 200 rounds.
The Glock trigger pin is retained by the slide stop lever, its spring tail rides in one of the two grooves on the pin.
I don't know if you have a generic slide stop lever or a genuine.
I'd strive for a genuine and make sure that the wire spring tail in nested into the pin groove or that pin is walking out.

Ammo
I don't like your ammo for break-in.
Try to find some full power 124gr ammo for break-in. Or even some full power 147gr.
124gr NATO ammo is ideal for break-in if you can find it.

RSA
I would recommend a genuine Glock RSA for break-in.
 
#8 ·
And Genuine Glock OEM parts seem to be unobtanium these days. All of them. :(

I've got some (upper parts) en route right now from Midway.


Glock Factory Extractor Dep...
Qty: 2
$9.98
($4.99 each)


Est. Delivery:
04/28/2022
(Economy – USPS or UPS)

Glock Factory Firing Pin Sp...
Qty: 2
$9.98
($4.99 each)


Glock Factory Firing Pin Sp...
Qty: 2
$9.98
($4.99 each)


Glock Factory Firing Pin Sa...
Qty: 2
$9.98
($4.99 each)


Glock Factory Extractor Dep...
Qty: 2
$9.98
($4.99 each)


Glock Factory Firing Pin Ch...
Qty: 2
$9.98
($4.99 each)


Glock Factory Extractor Glo...
Qty: 2
$35.98
($17.99 each)


Glock Factory Firing Pin Gl...
Qty: 2
$79.98
($39.99 each)


Glock Factory Spring Loaded...
Qty: 2
$9.98
 
#13 · (Edited)
I had the issue with a complete slide I bought not going fully into battery. It was the RSA. The company sent me a new steel RSA for free. That solved it.
On the ejection, Aim Surplus sells a gen 3 housing with a 30274 ejector clone for $7.95. That's what I use. A 336 ejector won't work well for me. Also try a billet extractor next if that doesn't fix ejection. If your extractor depressor protrudes over a 1/4" from the back of the slide with the cover removed it is probably O K.
If your rails were properly seated those things I mentioned should help.
I also polish and level the tops of the rails on a fine stone with them pinned in and all other parts removed. Double check your RSA channel for smoothness.
Not sure throwing parts at this problem will fix it. Go a step at a time.
 
#14 ·
Great stuff, thank you all. I'll try the 30274 ejector, it should be an improvement over the one I have and it's available. Appreciate it, @BADDUCK My RSA channel is perfect now. It was good before, but put another 20 minutes into it today. I'll try for a better ejector and see if I can find a Glock OEM RSA, though all Glock stuff is extremely scarce. Good to know I don't need a spendy extractor. Glad that was pointed out as not being the problem.
 
#16 · (Edited)
OP, I did answer some of your questions over on the Patriot Gunn Builders Forum.

When it comes to extractors, I have never saw a need to use anything except OEM. The Glock LCI extractors have always worked for me in factory pistols and Polymer 80 builds.

I didn't have too much problems with brass to face with Gen 3 #336 ejectors in OEM Gen 3 pistols. I have had an issue with BTF using the #336 in P80 frames though. I will use either the G4 or G5 ejector in all of my 9mm builds.


And I will mention agin to double check that Patmos RSA (recoil spring assembly). The ones I got would to work correctly. The guide rod was undersized/out of spec and the spring was way too short. I highly suggest using either OEM or if you want a metal guide rd get it from NDZ.

Patmos firing pin safety plungers, like most aftermarket ones, are too tall when compared to OEM. Yes you can shorten them. I caution about just rounding them off with a file or sand paper. If nothing else, stick the plunger into a drill chuck and use a flat file to shorten it. You really y do not want to change the profile of the plunger. Also make sure it has a good bevel/chamfer around the circumference of the plunger.
 
#17 ·
Awesome, thank you!

Yes, the extractor seems to be fine, no need for a $56 upgrade.
I have new Gen4 ejectors inbound.
I will shorten the plunger a bit. I've seen photos of the OEM and you are correct, that looks shorter.
I ordered a new RSA.

Hoping this does it! Thanks so much for all the help!
 
#18 ·
I am waiting for stuff to finish this build to come in, but provided it works, I'm planning on #2 with lessons learned. I was lucky enough to get a complete Glock Gen3 slide assembly, with barrel and parts, thank the Good Lord, they are hard to find. Just slap it on and go.

For the lower, it's another Polymer 80 with Patmos LPK. I have Gen4 ejectors inbound. That is about the only part I need to (optional) replace, correct? Other than being very careful with the RSA channel clearing, the OEM upper should run just fine on the P80 lower, correct?
 
#21 ·
I have used the Polymer 80 lower parts with no issues other than the ejector which is a Glock 336 clone. Actually, I like their trigger bars better than Glock.
The sear face on the cruciform of the Glock bars tend to be rough which can cause a rough creepy trigger pull. I have had to stone the sear face of the Glock bars I have installed. Also P80 trigger shoes are all smooth. So you should be GTG.
 
#19 ·
Just watch any aftermarket lower parts kit. While they may be within specifications, they could be at the minimum or maximum of the specs. That leads to tolerance stacking issues. And the more parts you add from different manufacturers, the worse the tolerance stacking gets. That is why you will hear us say that OEM is always the best way to go for internal parts.

One of the biggest issues we see with aftermarket parts is bad sear engagement issues. Generally going with OEM trigger bars and OEM trigger housings will fix a bad sear engagement.
 
#23 ·
On the MGB forum, we saw quite a few bad sear engagement issues with the Polymer 80 brand lower parts kits. Again, this also happens with a lot of different aftermarket parts kits.

Now if the sear engagement is good and everything works correctly, then the P80 parts kits are good to go. I have had better luck with lower parts kits from Rockey Brass. Though to be honest, I have switched most of my builds over to an OEM Gen 4 trigger housing or OEM Gen 5 setup.
 
#27 ·
Buy the real thing and spend time shooting vs. diagnosing and fixing as well as shipping the crap to/from vendors.
I have never seen the hate for those that build their own in the AR world. It is only in the Glock world that we see such hatred. It is something I don't understand.
People who build their own hot rods are stupid. It seems they're always having to fix or modify something on those hot rods. They should just buy a sensible and reliable Honda Accord or Toyota Camry INSTEAD!


:ROFLMAO: :rolleyes: :poop::devilish:
 
#26 ·
Haters are going to hate, there is no changing that fact.

I get a kick out of the purists among both 1911 and Glock owners that don't like something different or anyone that does mods that deviates from the original.

For all the haters, I have built quite a few 80% pistols and have only had issues with one of them. And the issues I had were not caused by something I did or did not do during the build process. My issues with that one build was ammo related.

And again we will use automobiles as a perfect analogy. Some people are quite content to buy a vehicle as do nothing more that drive it until it dies, allowing others to do their oil changes. Then there are some that enjoy doing their own maintenance. And there are some that love to modify their stuff. Nothing wrong with any of the three types.

And the same goes for AR rifles too. I have never seen the hate for those that build their own in the AR world. It is only in the Glock world that we see such hatred. It is something I don't understand.

And yes you should always try to use OEM Glock parts no matter if the frame is from Glock or some other company. When you are modifying or trying to trouble shoot your pistol, change only one part at a time. Remember to keep things simple.
 
#32 ·
OP, did you resolve the issue?

I’m having the same issue on my build. Did everything you mentioned in the original post, but around 75% of my shots have FTRB. Did the recoil spring test and it failed. I have a Kineti tech slide with 18# recoil spring. The RSA makes a squeaky sound (like scratching a chalkboard) when I rack the slide, much louder than my MR920.

I think the issue is this cheap RSA, so I’m gonna get one from NDZ. I don’t know if I should stick with 18# or 20#. Which did you go with?
 
#33 ·
OP, did you resolve the issue?

I’m having the same issue on my build. Did everything you mentioned in the original post, but around 75% of my shots have FTRB. Did the recoil spring test and it failed. I have a Kineti tech slide with 18# recoil spring. The RSA makes a squeaky sound (like scratching a chalkboard) when I rack the slide, much louder than my MR920.

I think the issue is this cheap RSA, so I’m gonna get one from NDZ. I don’t know if I should stick with 18# or 20#. Which did you go with?

A NDZ recoil spring is one of the few aftermarket ones I will use and recommend. I would stick with the 18# spring first. Make sure that the channel is 100% finished and smooth while you are at it.

Now for a squeaky recoil spring. You can give them a good soak with your favorite gun lubricant and that will help with the squeaking.
 
#38 ·
After building 3 p80's, I would just confirm what basically everyone else has said, and that is, if you did your rails and channel correctly and assembled it correctly, then you just need to shoot it until the parts break-in. I Have come to believe that all "clone"gen3 glock parts are not always built to the highest levels of machinist precision or multiple vendors used for critical parts combination, and hence you either figure out were your parts aren't "meshing" with either a file or simply racking the drive and/or firing the pistol .
It is a pain, but once you get your poly80 running they are great runners!


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