Glock Talk banner
  • Notice image

    Glocktalk is a forum community dedicated to Glock enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about Glock pistols and rifles, optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, and more!

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

Colt38SuperDude

· Banned
Joined
·
8,859 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
As usual, the links to Nighthawk Colt page and CZ page are below for those who want to know the particulars, especially in the case of the Nighthawk Colt.



This comparison is going to have a bit more preamble than usual just because of the funkiness of the custom Colt and CZ.

Nighthawk is a well renowned 1911 custom shop that produces its own guns and doing custom work on selected brands. I’m not a custom Colt guy and I have neither interest nor intentions of sending out my Colts to any custom shop for modifications. That’s hot my thing. However this Colt Hawk intrigued me. The story was that somebody sent Nighthawk his Colt Classic (aka current version of the Series 70 Government Model - very basic, no frills) for some light modifications. The end result intrigued the Nighthawk shop so much that they decided to buy up a bunch of blued Colt Classics, give it some nice mods (please read link above) and sold the gun as-is. The gun comes in original Colt box with all the Colt accoutrements plus Nighthawk documents to include a three-shots test target.

Two of the biggest things Nighthawk did were a trigger job and fitted barrel bushing. No slide to frame fit though. The barrel is stock Colt, although I’ve read of one instance where the Colt barrel didn’t turn out the desired accuracy and Nighthawk slapped in their own barrel - still kept the same price though. This particular gun turned in a one-hole 3-shots group at 12-yards according to Nighthawk test target.

CZ Custom out of Mesa, Arizona is not part of CZUB or CZ-USA but they are affiliated. CZ Custom will do anything you want on your CZ and also puts out their own custom packages pret-a-porter. Some of these packages are sold by CZ USA like the AccuShadow 2 and the AL01. Some you’d have to buy directly from CZC like the Bull Shadow.

The AccuShadow 2 also comes with its own CZC test target. Interestingly enough the AccuShadow 2 came in the regular CZ box while the Shadow 2Orange came in a big, fancy case.

Both guns were massaged by the finest ‘Murican smithies. Both were accurized and trigger worked on. The big difference is the caliber: .45 versus 9mm, as opposed to my previous comparisons pitting Colt .38 Supers against CZ 9mms. The .38 Super more closely resemble the 9mm ballistics but I don’t have a true custom worked Colt .38 Super (yet) so the Colt Hawk will have to do.

The Hawk has serrations on the front and back straps while the CZC has checkered. Granted that the serrations don’t glue the gun to your hand like good checkerings do, but the way Nighthawk did the serrations...it’s more than adequate.

The front sight of the Hawk is honest-to-goodness gold bead, while the CZC is fiber optic just like the other Shadow 2 front sights. The Hawk is the first and only gun I have that actually sports a true gold bead. I have other Colts that come with brass beads. Frankly I’d rather have black or fiber optics because the gold (or brass) bead catches and reflect the light in a way that messed up my sight picture. It’s like seeing double front sights. Very weird, at least to me.

This gold bead is what I think made the Hawk less competitive in slow, precision fire drills against the CZC. The Hawk’s rear sight picture is better than typical Colt Novak or Bomar rear, but still isn’t as nice as the rear sight on the CZC. Nonetheless the Hawk’s irons are awesome for service gun - which is what it’s meant to be. It isn’t made with competition in mind.








939426


Image
939429
939430
939431
939432
 
Discussion starter · #2 ·
Slow fire drills showed that the Hawk kept up with the CZC just fine until the distance got out to 15-yards and beyond.

At first I thought that I experienced that strange 1st shot phenomenon but upon reflection I do believe it was due to the gold bead front sight catching the light wrong and gave me that strange double vision that I talked about earlier. As I was about to blast my first group at 15-yards, I was asked to relocate to another lane. The previous lane’s light gave me a nice black front sight profile. The new lane’s lighting position caused me to see double, floating gold beads.

The trigger pull of the Hawk isn’t as hair trigger as the CZC but it broke so clean with a take up that is both short and smooth...how good is it? It’s SIG P210-6 good. The CZC is a DASA, thus while the SA pull is well tuned, it isn’t clean as an SAO pull - just nature of the beast.

939435
939436
939437
939438
939439
939440
939441
939442
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
It’s hard to describe but for slow fire drills, the CZC is simply effortless while the Hawk still requires more concentration. Even if I didn’t get the messed up glare off the gold bead, I don’t think that I can shoot the Colt as tight as the CZC. It’s not the lack in mechanical accuracy but it’s the ergonomics: the extra heft and muzzle weight bias of the CZC coupled with target iron sights are enough advantages to overwhelm the beautifully tuned Hawk.

939445
939446
939447
939448
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Mozambique time and for those who had been reading my other Colt v CZ threads, you’d know who will be the winner. Yep. Colt. Again. The simple fact is that in dynamic shooting, the ergonomics of the 1911 is unequaled. In this case, the Hawk contributed better irons and trigger pull than the two other stock Colts just added frosting to the cake.

I shot the 15-yards Mozambique drill twice because I had a bad run with the CZC.

939455
939456
939457
939458
939459
939460
939461
939462
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Finished things off with 25-yards controlled pair drills. The .45’s extra recoil did not turn out to be an issue. I had 10-rounds of 9mm left so I let the range safety dude finished out the day. He has a CZ P10 Optic Ready but he never fired a 75-family before.

The Colt Hawk sporting an MSRP of $2599 (or $2699, I can’t remember), while the AccuShadow 2 MSRP is $2269. You can still find AccuShadow 2 offered from CZC or CZ USA. However Nighthawk put a halt to the Colt Hawk because their supply of Colt Classic had dried up.

Naturally both Nighthawk and CZC are more than willing and able to turn your Colt Classic and Shadow 2 into Colt Hawk and AccuShadow 2.

My last thought after shooting the CZ Shadow 2 Blue SA, Orange, and AccuShadow 3 in three consecutive days is that I am hard pressed to justify the $900 increase in cost for the Orange and the AccuShadow over the Blue SA. The Blue SA had seemingly equal mechanical accuracy without resorting to fitted barrel bushing and slide-to-frame fitting. The trigger pull isn’t as nice as the Orange and AccuShadow, but the difference is so small that it’s negligible.

What about the cost differential between the Colt Hawk versus the Colt Competition or Gold Cup Trophy? We are talking about $1500 up charge for the former and $1000 up charge for the latter. Is mechanical accuracy better? Yes. No doubt. Is it better enough to justify the extra cost? That’s the tough question to answer. The Hawk just isn’t more mechanically accurate but it’s been massaged by a master shop. It might not have received a full Nighthawk custom job, but the estimate of the work to be done on a basic Colt to turn it into a Colt Hawk is about $2000.

I’m not sending any Colt to Nighthawk or Wilson or Heirloom Precision. However if Nighthawk were to make a Colt Hawk or Colt Something in .38 Super...ooh lala, ma cher. I’d be all up into that like a Chinese at dim sum buffet.

939463
939464
939465
939466
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
I called Nighthawk to have my name put on the waiting list for the 70 Series last August. They still haven't called me.
Your best bet is to buy your own pistol and send it to them. I know a shop right now that has a SS Colt Classic sans sights and no slide markings. Ready to be sent to a custom shop.
 
You and Bac really do great write ups. The goals might be different but I learn quite from both of you. Thanks so much for putting in the time to do such things.

CZ has really upped their game with some great products. I’m guessing it won’t be long until they pry some more money from my wallet.

And for all of Colts supposed mismanagement over the years they really do make a solid 1911. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with new management.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
You and Bac really do great write ups. The goals might be different but I learn quite from both of you. Thanks so much for putting in the time to do such things.

CZ has really upped their game with some great products. I’m guessing it won’t be long until they pry some more money from my wallet.

And for all of Colts supposed mismanagement over the years they really do make a solid 1911. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with new management.
I’m excited to see CZ plumbing up Colt. Consistency in quality from one gun to another would be nice. More guns available for sales would be most appreciated.

Colt literally could make a killing with the sales of their SAA line and their Custom Shop specials. Right now Colt Custom is working with Stan Chen to turn out some superior high tier carry guns. However good luck finding one to buy.
 
You and Bac really do great write ups. The goals might be different but I learn quite from both of you. Thanks so much for putting in the time to do such things.

CZ has really upped their game with some great products. I’m guessing it won’t be long until they pry some more money from my wallet.
Thanks

I agree on CZ really upping their game. This isn’t one of their pistols though. It’s a CZ Custom pistol. They are completely separate, but still very nice guns.

CZ did base their Shadow 2 Orange on this pistol, however.




 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts