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When will the reduction sales force SIG to drop the P320?

  • 1 year

    Votes: 53 14%
  • 2 years

    Votes: 19 4.9%
  • 3 years

    Votes: 14 3.6%
  • 4-5 years

    Votes: 12 3.1%
  • Never. SIG will fix it

    Votes: 38 9.9%
  • The military will keep it but the market will reject it

    Votes: 67 17%
  • I do not care about the P320

    Votes: 97 25%
  • I love the P320 and am invested in it!

    Votes: 9 2.3%
  • The P320 will be fine

    Votes: 75 20%

CASE DISMISSED: POLICE OFFICER ADMITS HIS SIG SAUER P320 PISTOL CANNOT DISCHARGE WITHOUT A TRIGGER PULL (P320 Mega-Thread)

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133K views 4.3K replies 332 participants last post by  Syclone0538  
#1 ·
CASE DISMISSED: POLICE OFFICER ADMITS HIS SIG SAUER P320 PISTOL CANNOT DISCHARGE WITHOUT A TRIGGER PULL

NEWINGTON, NH (March 13, 2025) – SIG SAUER is pleased to announce the United States District Court for the District of Puerto Rico has officially entered an Order dismissing the lawsuit (Berrios v. Sig Sauer) alleging the P320 service weapon of police officer Elvis Ramon Green Berrios (the “Plaintiff”) discharged without the trigger being pulled. Mr. Berrios voluntarily dismissed his action against SIG SAUER admitting in court filed documents that his P320 pistol has no defects and does not discharge without a trigger pull
 
#82 ·
There's no denying that many
The link is the appendix from this report.

It is from the Washington state criminal justice training center site. Another GT poster turned me on to it. It was publicly announced in the news that Sig was banned for the uncommanded discharges and some people on some forums claimed the news stories were not proof of it so we got the official report .
It is an appendix to the Washington state criminal justice training center (CJTC). It was attached to the report that wrote when they banned all sig 320s from being used on their facilities or at their training. That appendix was written by the cadre at Vancouver PD, one of the largest LE agencies in the state of Washington.

CJTC handles all the commissions and all the training for LE for the state. You cannot be LE in this state without going through them.
That's better. I don't own a P320, I can confidently say that I will never own one. I think the Beretta APX and Springfield Echelon are much better. I think the Glock 19x and Beretta APX should have done head to head to see which own the military contract. I think the APX would have won. I don't have to a dig in this fight. That said, this is the first time I seen anything other than conjecture with regards to any issues with the P320.

I'll look into the these allegations. Thanks.
 
#94 ·
Mr. Berrios voluntarily dismissed his action against SIG SAUER admitting in court filed documents that his P320 pistol has no defects and does not discharge without a trigger pull.
Highly doubt he is qualified to make this determination. Is he even an Sig certified armorer? Odd he would even make this definitive claim. Guessing there is an out of court settlement.
 
#100 ·
This type of thing happens at one time or another with all firearms. It's been happening with Glocks since they first came out in the 80's. How many articles have been written about Glocks being "dangerous" because they don't have a mechanical "safety"?

A firearm that doesn't possess the element of "danger" is useless.... Much like a chainsaw. How many people injure themselves with them every year? You have to possess the common sense it takes to use it.

A chain brake doesn't make a chainsaw any safer than a safety does on a pistol.... If there is an idiot running both, bad things are destined to happen. Show me a person who "needs" a safety, and I'll show you someone I don't want to be around when they're shooting.

 
#101 ·
Show me a person who "needs" a safety, and I'll show you someone I don't want to be around when they're shooting.
Then I would have to gather you don't want anyone around you when they're shooting. The reason I ask is because ND's have happened from the noob all the way up to the high level professional and/or competitor.
 
#120 ·
Thank you! I don't have a concern about UD's. The top one is my IDPA pistol and has been since last season. It now has around 10,000 rounds through it. The bottom one is my EDC. I appendix carry it and it has maybe 3000 rounds through it.
 
#127 ·
#145 ·
you spend your money and you take your chances! I just would NOT buy one. Kind of like what happed to Toyota back around 2011 or so when their gas pedals got stuck to the floor or whatever.
I've bought my share of CLUNKER guns and also CLUNKER (new) cars too.
I RIDE my safety (thump safety on my 1911) when I holster it. I want to be sure the holster or nothing else doesn't put the safety on "fire".
I used to own a Glock model 30 and I shot it well but I don't like that style trigger. Now if it had a manual safety I'd be okay with it. I've been chastised in a few places for saying that! I've been shooting since 1965 if you count my Army time and haven't had any ND's.
Buy what works for you and practice.
 
#147 ·
There are several issues to consider in these types of thread;
  1. Getting information from anyone with a preconceived bias.
  2. Not digging for full information.
  3. Not following up on the conclusion of an incident.
  4. Failure to see the bigger picture.
First, there are some that look at the information through bias-colored lenses. They approach this information with a preconceived idea already formed and then try to stretch the facts to back up that preconceived idea while ignoring information that doesn't fit that preconceived idea. You can see that on the various YT influencer videos that are presented here as 'proof' while ignoring that the influencer wasn't vetted, the material they present wasn't vetted and they have a financial interest in getting clicks and subs. At least some were honest about it i.e. the young guy with 19k subscribers admitting he wants to get to 100k subs by the end of this year because of financial compensation.

Secondly and third fit together, many don't want to do their due diligence in looking at all the information beyond what the 'journalist' has offered. For example, the article on the SRO in Pasco who's pistol discharged in a cafeteria full of middle school kids. I read several articles on that when it happened and have linked to them in other P320 threads. If you just read the article you come away with the inescapable conclusion that the P320 is a ticking time bomb just waiting to be bumped the wrong way. And unfortunately the 'where there's smoke there's fire' crowd doesn't bother to look further to verify the veracity of the article. If they did, or it they waited for the conclusion of the investigation (which was conducted by the Pasco SO, FDLE and Sig) they would have learned that much of what was in the original articles was, at best, slanted towards a specific POV and at worst outright fabrication on key details. The actual conclusion? The SRO was caught on camera playing with the pistol in and out of the holster, admitted he lied about the details of the discharge, admitted it was a bad habit and was terminated as a result.

This is important and can't be stressed enough. I see a few here and on other forums that are in the 'skim the headline' crowd or the 'where there is smoke' crowd that don't follow up or dig deeper and take everything the 'media' shovels as factual and honest. And then the regurgitate what is basically fake news. The facts in this incident were that it was user error, mishandling and dishonest and the pistol was not the issue in any way.

The same thing with any agency that doesn't publish the results of a full investigation (regardless of what the investigation was about). Some here have gone on and on about Montville as if it is their smoking gun. They tout that the investigation revealed it was user-error and no FOD was found. That's odd, because the 'investiagation' was never made public...if they indeed actually had an investigation. And if they did have an investigation it would have been the most Mickey Mouse investigation I've every seen in 30 years. The Pasco incident took several months, lots of interviews, lots of testng by multiple entites to arrive a a definitive conclusion. The Montville 'investigation' took less that 3 days (if it even happened), no other entities were allowed to examine the pistol or scene or speak with the Officer and the results were never made public. So if you see any one claiming that Montville demonstrated there was no user-error and no FOD found...ask them how they know and then ask the to prove it. I have in several of these threads and the quesiton is always avoided. No different than the few that post that they 'know' the pistol has an issue but when asked to be specific on what that issue is, and how did they prove it...they leave the thread. Come to your own conclusion.

Lastly, the bigger picture. Most here and on other firearm forums are aware of the agenda of the bulk of the MSM. When you read through articles you start to see a pattern i.e. they are going off the same script of information and the non-reporting of specific information. It is simply folly to think you are getting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth from anti-2A journalism. Anything offered as 'factual' information needs to be challenged to see if it stands up to scrutiny.

In conclusion, it is up to the reader to come to their own conclusions. The #1 question on this topic has been answered, multiple times, in multiple incidents by multiple professional agencies. That question is; has any qualified expert in an official investigation and/or court case that has examined a post-upgrade P320 involved in a ND incident ever demonstrated that it was capable of discharging without the trigger being depressed? The answer has always been 'no'. A few have tossed out that there may be information, somewhere, someplace by someone that has made a post-upgrade P320 discharge without the trigger being pulled (not counting the idiot that disassembled the slide and stuck a screwdriver inside and was pressing on things. Particularly since it's not know how else the pistol was altered or the veracity of the YT video).

Some will stick with factual information from trusted sources until/unless additional information comes to light that alters their POV. Some will stick with speculation because they have a bias and want the P320 to be unsafe to support their bias. Again, it's up to the reader to come to their own conclusion.
 
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#148 · (Edited)
You have some facilities in your argument.
You definitely can get good information from biased sources including sources that are biased against your position .
Secondly, we have shown the P320 had uncommanded discharges in an official investigation and it was repeatable . Again, if the trigger was depressed , and the striker drops three months later and has a discharge in the holster , does that fit your qualifier? Because it fits our definition of an uncommanded discharge .
As far as Montville investigation, why would they make it public beyond what they did. They said it was the gun , replaced it and moved on. Why, from their point of view waste time on it.
And decision in 3 days is easy. Not operator error - video shows the gun was seated in the holster with the hood up( still shots at the 8:06 mark shows the officer’s holster - thank you YouTube -lol) —they can see the other belts to see if there was something that could dangle into the holster, they had the initial examination of the gun and holster to see no obstruction in the trigger well. They had the holster to examine . If not the holster, not the operator , not obstruction, it’s the gun— that simple.
As far as other department investigations into the P320, you dismissed the news reports on it despite public statements by those departments on the results . Some gave the actual report to the press or made it available by a freedom of information request. Just because we can’t get it online doesn’t mean it wasn’t available to the press. And their decision to replace the sig320 should be enough to show they blame the gun. You dispute the reasons for their decision but in turn seem to say there is no proof of reasons for their decision.
Good thing we got the Washington state academy’s report. An official investigation who concludes it’s the gun.
As far as YouTube , we can take it based on as much faith that you give Sig’s claims . Especially since sig has been caught using that same lie about the P320’s pre-upgrade drop issue . And was shown on cross examination to have had one of its experts “doctor” some of the evidence in the trial. Let’s not forget the false info Sig put out about the montville incident and the officer’s holster.
Where did I learn about that ? You tube and then verified it by looking at the source material like the court papers etc
You claim not to have a bias but I think you do.
I recognize my bias which is the first step to overcome it.
We know that many of the p320 uncommanded discharges claims are false. But we know many are true. Let’s just stick to those that are on video and/or witinessed by a range officer . That would be enough to show there is a problem with the gun .