[Wake_jumper]

I have a new LCP II. It is a very nice shooter and as a long time LCP I owner, I was really excited about it. Now, I am having second thoughts about carrying it.

Here's the problem. There is only one way to carry with one in the chamber. In 1911 terms, cocked and unlocked. The internal hammer must be 100% cocked. The only safety is a blade on the trigger. The single action only (SAO) trigger has a 5.5#, 3/4" pull.

The first gen LCP is very safe, being a double action only design (with a long heavy trigger). I have no problem carrying with one in the chamber. It reminds me of a J-Frame.

I also worry about mechanical failure... what if something lets go in the gun and the hammer drops? There isn't anything blocking the firing pin or the hammer. The only safety on the gun is that blade on the trigger.

So, in my opinion, to have the same level of safety as I am comfortable with (LCP I), the LCP II should be carried with the camber empty. I know it has been debated to death here, but I am in the "one in the pipe" camp.

Tell me I'm wrong and the LCP II is a safe little gun. But, unless someone can convince me otherwise, I'm putting it back in the safe and putting LCP I back in my pocket.

 

[Wake_jumper]

I believe the LCP II has a transfer bar system similar to their revolvers. If this is the case, the hammer does not actually contact the FP, the hammer hits the transfer bar that hits the FP in normal operation. If the trigger is not pulled, the transfer bar is not in position to transfer the force of the hammer to the FP.

It will be a few days before I can verify this.

Well, I did my own test; tell me what you think:

Here's what I did. Gun unloaded and no magazine. Slide racked and in the normal closed firing position (i.e. in battery), hammer cocked. Pushed on the end of the thing the hammer strikes (I assume this is the end of the firing pin, and not a transfer bar, but what do I know), the firing pin (under spring tension) moved out of the breech and was fully extended into the chamber. I did not touch the trigger in any way. I assume that this means that there is a direct connection from the hammer to the firing pin and there is nothing else needed to make the gun fire or that could or would keep the gun from firing.

 

[Wake_jumper]

Got it, thanks. I would like to get to the bottom of this.

I saw this on AR15.com:

"I spoke with Ruger's customer service and consulted the owners manual.

The only safety the LCP II has is the trigger bar safety. Ruger recommends that the firearm not be carried with one in the chamber "because while drop tested, it is a mechanical device that could fail." In addition the representative said "I carry one without a round in the chamber, if I ever need it, I'll have the 3 seconds needed to chamber a round." I was pretty shocked by his quote. "

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That is interweb rumor, but I might just call Ruger myself and see what they say.

Well that confirms my own observations. Disappointing to be sure. Oh well, not a big deal. I will keep Elsie Pea I in my pocket and say goodbye to LCP II.

 

[Wake_jumper]

I'm still not entirely convinced it doesn't have some sort of drop safety/firing pin safety. Just because it's 100% cocked doesn't automatically mean it doesn't, right? I believe XDs are 100% (but maybe that's why they have that grip safety) and M&Ps are like 98%. So before we go all half-cocked over this issue we probably should be 100% sure there really is no drop safety in the LCP II.

The specs on this page list a trigger safety and firing pin safety. However Ruger's web site says nothing so I'm not sure where these specs came from but they look pretty official and the part number matches:

http://phoenix.backpage.com/SportsEquipForSale/278-ruger-lcp-ii-380-acp-new/44392911

SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: 3750
Action: Double
Caliber: 380 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP)
Barrel Length: 2.75"
Magazine Capacity: 6+1
Safety: Trigger/Firing Pin/Internal Lock

This is incorrect.

The only safety on the gun is the blade on the trigger.

 

[Wake_jumper]

And this is documented where exactly?

It's all in the LCP II user manual.
Here's the link: http://ruger.com/products/lcpII/models.html

 

[Wake_jumper]

I read the entire manual. Nowhere does it say there is no firing pin or drop safety. In fact it doesn't even mention the trigger safety. All it says is "ANY GUN MAY FIRE IF DROPPED". The original LCP's manual says the same thing.

One commenter did say that when pulling the trigger the hammer moves about an 1/8". That would imply some kind of internal safety mechanism, given that this is suppose to be a 100% pre-cocked trigger.

All you have to do is study the parts list on page 28 and the exploded view on page 29. The only safety mechanism is the trigger bar. The hammer does not move more than 1.5mm when the trigger is pulled, there is no internal safety mechanism, implied or otherwise. Why don't you go and check one out and see for yourself?

 

[Wake_jumper]

... I not only stopped carrying it, I sold it back to the store where I bought it.

Well, actually it was a trade, they had a brand new LCP Custom that I took home. The LCP Custom is really nice, too bad they stopped making it.

 

[Wake_jumper]

All of you concerned about the hammer falling without a trigger pull because the Ruger LCP II is single action pistol w/o an external safety may take some comfort from this video, which demonstrates that it isn't really a single action. Slide rack takes the hammer to half cocked. Trigger pull takes it back before the break, quite significantly. Just watch.

If you had an LCP I, you wouldn't say that was significant. That "significant" movement is only 1.5mm (I measured it) and is only the sear releasing the hammer. The hammer is fully cocked before the sear moves it. The LCP I trigger moves the hammer from rest to fully cocked, a long action similar to a double action revolver.

On their website, Ruger describes it this way: "Short, crisp, single-action trigger pull".

 

[Wake_jumper]

Half-cocked on a concealed hammer? When the slide cycles it leaves the hammer on half-cocked?

It's really more like 90% cocked. Which is how they get it to feel like a striker fired gun. The original LCP was half cocked and had a long trigger pull.

 

[Wake_jumper]

And the blade in the trigger does what? it activates some internal safety device. Anything mechanical can fail. So if that is your measuring stick, carry a Glock with 12# NY trigger, chamber loaded. Your shooting will suffer, but you will "feel" safer. Then again, I am comfortable carrying a 1911 cocked & locked. It isn't going off unless you press the trigger. As far as dropping it, don't drop it.

The blade safety on the trigger is self contained and doesn't activate or deactivate any internal mechanism, it just moves out of the way. It is a simple block that works exactly like the one Glock uses. It is not particularly effective. AD with Glocks (for example) from catching something (like clothing) in the trigger guard when holstering is way too common.

Would you carry your 1911 cocked and unlocked? That would be closer to the LCP II manual of arms (I think the LCP II trigger safety is functionally similar to a 1911 grip safety).

IMHO, carrying a 1911, cocked and locked, is much safer than carrying a loaded LCP II.

 

[Wake_jumper]

So is the LCP Custom safer to carry with a round in the chamber ?

Yes, just like the LCP.