[mixflip]

I know the consensus is "HELL NO" for the average retail price of about $2,100 for the basic model in my area. They are on the shelves in some local stores here in Vegas. I hear it all the time "Its nice but not that nice". I could get a quality M4 and a 6.8 upper for less money.

Am I the only one who is still contemplating buying one even at this price?

I cant seem to shake the urge to still get it. I have a hidden piggy bank that my wife doesnt know about and its almost got enough to buy the ACR? I was given a bunch of household goods from a family members foreclosure that I have been selling off on craigslist and has helped build my piggy bank lol. So alot of the money is not actual "hours for dollars" money.

I cant be the only one crazy enough to say "eh what the hell why not"?

 

[Randolph da man]

I think Im going to pick up an enhanced model and ring it out. If I dont like it, i'll turn it.

 

[RMTactical]

Way too much. I wouldn't even pay that much for a Magpul Masada, little less an ACR.

 

[faawrenchbndr]

None for me,........thanks.

 

[djegators]

An unproven Bushmaster/Remington that is not compatible with any widely distributed platform for the price of a top shelf Noveske...what could go wrong?

 

[nastytrigger]

I'm still new to the ACR / SCAR debate. What does the ACR offer that the SCAR doesn't. Vice versa. Is the SCAR the better 'deal'? Are they both superior to the traditional AR platforms, or just a piston gun that looks cool? Like what's being said, I could build my dream AR and have money left over for a Aimpoint, mags, ammo, etc, for the price of the ACR.

The only thing I see I like, which I don't really need, is the side-folding stock.

 

[alexanderg23]

umm it still shoots a lil 223, now if you were talking about a SCAR-H I would say absofreakinglutly

 

[mixflip]

I'm still new to the ACR / SCAR debate. What does the ACR offer that the SCAR doesn't. Vice versa. Is the SCAR the better 'deal'? Are they both superior to the traditional AR platforms, or just a piston gun that looks cool? Like what's being said, I could build my dream AR and have money left over for a Aimpoint, mags, ammo, etc, for the price of the ACR.

The only thing I see I like, which I don't really need, is the side-folding stock.

To the uninitiated...

Its not leaps and bounds advanced over an M4. Its more of a mash up of all the good things of some of the best rifles ie....

Multi caliber capable, barrel can be changed quickly with no tools at user level. The M4 obviously cant. Although you can carry a spare upper if that counts? The SCAR needs tools.

Its piston operated for a cleaner cooler bolt face area. The M4 is obviously direct impingement that dumps hot dirty gases right into the star chamber. But we all know if you keep an M4 clean and it will out live the shooter. The SCAR is good to go here.

Its got a non-reciprocating bolt handle. Which on the SCAR, it moves with every shot and can get hung up on personal gear. The M4 is good to go here.

The bolt handle can be switched from left to right or both sides. M4 and SCAR cannot.

The bolt handle is forward of any optics unlike the SCAR where the bolt handle sits right underneath optics which is already a complaint of FN users.

Its got a true monolithic top rail which keeps zero on optics better than the standard M4 with a bolt on system. The SCAR is good to go here.

Fully ambi controls. The SCAR does not have ambi bolt release for some reason? This is where the ACR shines from what I hear?

Its got a collapsible and folding stock which obviously the M4 cannot fold.

Its got a built in cheek weld. M4 doesnt. SCAR is GTG here.

The ACR comes with the MBUS sights. The SCAR has a built in front sight but not a built rear? Kinda odd? I like the choice of running BUIS I like best. Not a deal breaker but it is odd FN did that?

The ACR is close to 9lbs which is right at the limit of what I'd like to lug around all day. The good thing is that any 9lb rifle will usually give you great follow up shots. My days of carrying a rifle for months at a time are over so not a big deal to me there lol.





So as you can see its not leaps and bounds better than an M4 or SCAR but it is slightly better on paper in the bolt handle area, barrel change system and fully ambi controls area.

Only time will tell if it lives up to the hype. Initial testing from what I have read is all good though so far. Keep in mind I am not a Magpul/Remington/Bushmaster coolaide drinking fanboy. I just like the options I see on paper. I think if they dropped the price to about $1500 they would have to ship these things with syrup because they would sell like hot cakes! The $2,100 price tag is just ridiculous.

 

[PlasticGuy]

I handled the standard and enhanced versions at both Bushmaster's and Remington's booths at the SHOT Show. I saw nothing that made me think it was a bad design. However, they couldn't have made a worse choice of barrels. It is 1:9" twist, which no high end 5.56 rifle uses anymore. It's not chrome lined, and Bushmaster told me at SHOT that it's not nitrided either. Until I see some proof that it is treated or coated with something equivalent, I consider it inferior. It's also way too heavy. There is no reason to use a heavy profile barrel. Of course it shoots well. Any 8.3 pound 5.56 rifle shoots well. But it isn't selling.

Bushmaster is already talking about big and small changes they are considering for future generations. They know it's not selling, and they know it must either change or die. It will either be redesigned to be a better rifle, or as good as dead within year. Either way, now is not the time to buy.

 

[mixflip]

I heard they opted out for the chrome lining and went with some other self lubricating coating that also treats other internal metal interfacing parts? I still dont know what the treatment is? As for the twist? Yeah I dont know why they chose 1:9 either? With the huge amount of engineering involved, there must be some logic to the twist choice? I hope?

The good thing is that a new barrel with a better twist is an easy fix especially with the ACR. I foresee them changing the grip to something customizable like a MIAD. Wierd that Magpul didnt incorporate that in the design? So far not deal breaker issues for me since I am not going to Iraq or A-stan. The price is still the deal breaker for me.

 

[PlasticGuy]

I heard they opted out for the chrome lining and went with some other self lubricating coating that also treats other internal metal interfacing parts? I still dont know what the treatment is? As for the twist? Yeah I dont know why they chose 1:9 either? With the huge amount of engineering involved, there must be some logic to the twist choice? I hope?

The good thing is that a new barrel with a better twist is an easy fix especially with the ACR...

The barrel is a huge problem. The heavy profile, slow twist, and top secret magic coating have everybody complaining. I suspect that Bushmaster went 1:9 twist and heavy profile because that's what they have a warehouse full of, but I don't get coating it with gypsy tears and not releasing any information about what it is. Their customers are not as gullible as Bushmaster seems to think.

And no, it's not an easy fix. It's easy to remove the old barrel and install a new one, but the barrels are proprietary so there is nothing else available. Even if/when replacement barrels are available, Bushmaster can charge whatever they want for them, and they have already proven that they don't care if the ACR is affordable. And yes, $3000 for an unproven rifle that isn't issued to any military or law enforcement entity is rediculous.

Again, I don't hate the rifle. It needs a new barrel in a bad way though, and the price is insane.

 

[nastytrigger]

No chrome lined barrel? 1:9 twist. I already have that on my $900 Bushy. I won't buy a AR that doesn't have a chrome lined barrel. Same with 1:9. I'm okay with my 1:9, but now prefer a 1:7. Weird that Bushy's biggest competition, the SCAR has 1:7, but they stick with 1:9? Is 1:7 a option?

What other multiple caliber are we talking for the ACR? 6.8, 7.62x39, 5.45x39, .450 Bushmaster, .204, .22LR, 410, 7.62x51, .50 Beowulf, .50BMG , crossbow?

 

[ancient_serpent]

I like the features it offers, but again, like otheres here, I don't understand the choices in rifling and barrel lining (or lack thereof). I'd drop 1700 or so on one if they:
-Chrome line the barrel
-offer 1/7 or 1/8 twist

 

[mixflip]

I agree, I think if Magpul was building this gun by itself they would have changed the issues of twist and coating immediately. In 2008 Magpul immediately changed the location of the charging handle from where the SCAR is today to the forward position to clear optics. They seemed fearless when it came to changing the gun to address economy of motion & logic which is almost Magpul mission statement.

When Remington/Bushmaster got involved things seemed to bog down and that spirit of "lets not put saving a buck over making a great gun" changed a little?

I think the guys at Magpul would swap out a better barrel and chrome line it in a heart beat? But The corporate big wigs at Remington, like you said, see an opportunity to save on cost and use those huge raw stock of heavy 1:9 twist barrels? Maybe? Maybe not? Who knows??? I wouldn't be surprised though.

 

[PlasticGuy]

Remington was all jazzed up at the SHOT Show about pushing for military contracts. What military contract won't specify a chrome lined 1:7 twist barrel? It makes no sense.

 

[nastytrigger]

Can someone help me understand the three manufacturers roles in this? Remington, Bushmaster, and Magpul. I'm lost as to who has done what. Did Magpul design first, the Masada? Who did barrel? Bushmaster gets the brand, product, distribution? Just wondering.

 

[Daekwan]

I just dont see anything special about it anymore. When it first announced, and the Magpul Masada special shown on Futureweapons it looked like absolute replacement for the M4.

After 2 years of waiting.. Then came reality.. the price, the barrel, the weight was not what anyone expected. The most impressive feat about the rifle as Mack from Futureweapons said was.. "And just like that.. the Masada can imitate the legendary AK47" isnt even true anymore.

The pricing had to be the biggest turnoff but even as the price dropped from $3000 retail.. theres just little left to make me want one anymore. I'll keep saving my money for the next 'big' thing.. literally. Im looking to pickup .308 rifle sometime next year. For the price of ACR shooting the same 'little' .223 round.. you can play with the big boys. LMT, Larue and SCAR-H are all at the top of my list for rifles in the mid $2k range.

 

[ancient_serpent]

UPDATE:
Maybe I'm retarded, but I just now looked at their website and noticed that there is an option for 1/7 twist; there is also is a barrel lining (but what that is, is unspecified).
The version I'd want (the brown enhanced rifle) is over $3000.
Wow.

 

[raven11]

Can someone help me understand the three manufacturers roles in this? Remington, Bushmaster, and Magpul. I'm lost as to who has done what. Did Magpul design first, the Masada? Who did barrel? Bushmaster gets the brand, product, distribution? Just wondering.

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

the way I understand it, Magpul designed the
ACR, then It was sold to some group that
owns both Bushmaster and Remington

Remington is in charge of making the rifle for Military/LE sale with a 1:7 twist , Crome lined barrel, and select fire

Bushmaster is in charge of making the rifle for civilian sale in two varients: enhanced and basic with the 1:9 twist, not crome lined barrel, and semi auto

 

[PlasticGuy]

Magpul started by designing and Masada rifle. They are not capable of producing most of the metal components, or of building the complete rifles, so they had to contract with somebody. They signed some sort of agreement for Remington and Bushmaster to produce it as the ACR, though the specifics of that agreement have been kept very quiet. I asked both Magpul and Bushmaster about that at SHOT, and neither would say anything. I doubt was actually sold, but it is licensed at the very least. Magpul is producing most or all of the polymer components for both Remington and Bushmaster.

Remington will only market to military and federal law enforcement. They were very vague about what their final product would be. It seemed like they were producing variants to the specs of different groups. I don't think there is a "standard" Remington version. If somebody wants a specific twist rate, barrel coating, and exterior finish, Remington will provide it. They said they were working on variants with metal lower recievers, and magnesium stock hinges and other components. They said that their focus was on select fire variants, but they again said they will make whatever they need to in order to win contracts. They did not have specific examples of contracts they were trying to win at that time (January).

Bushmaster will only market to civilians and state or local law enforcement, and only in semi-automatic. They had two variants on display (though with a variety of color schemes and accessory combinations). One is the standard version that is currently being sold. The other was identical except with the addition of a railed aluminum forend and an adjustable folding stock. At that time, they said they had no immediate plans for other variations other than a 6.8 SPC conversion that they hoped to have out by fall. They have since claimed to be working on different barrel options, but so far it seems to be vaporware.

Magpul is remaining very quiet about the whole thing. The rumor floating around the SHOT Show was that Magpul was fuming mad about the end product and the price, but wasn't in a position to do anything about it. They just had to sit quietly and watch the train derail. I suspect that when their .308 caliber Massaud is ready for production, they will not go to Remington/Bushmaster with it. In fact, I'd be a large sum of money on that.