[Randylahey53]

Clearly there is history with this neighbor. Starting off the "relationship" with this dog by assuming you're going to need to shoot it already puts you in the losing seat. You're already aggressively defensive about the dog. I don't doubt that if you walked by this dog off his leash while he's eating flowers and looking the other way you'd probably get jittery and shoot it. I'm
Not judging u or saying you're wrong for feeling that way, but thinking a gun is your first option is a huge mistake.

Call the police if threatened, or animal control. Handle the issue administratively. Ultimately you have a bad neighbor and the problem needs to be solved beyond the dog.

 

[DEADEYEGUY]

When I was younger I had a friend that trained dogs for military and police work. He even got me to put on "the suit" and play the aggressor once. It is unreal how much force and how powerful the animals are when they hit you at a full run.
The problem with pit bulls (or any large dog for that matter) is not rather it's a good dog or bad dog or whatever. Dogs are descended form the same species as bears. When they put there heads down and charge they are exposing a relatively small area. Most of it being a very angular, thick, boney, head. And a brain that floats in fluid that is an excellent deflector of bullets. Any bullet..
Add to this that many of the dogs that LEO's run into are often at drug houses. They have often been beaten from the time they were a puppy (fear biters) so they fear human beings. The drug thing may not apply but it is hard to kill them is what I am getting at when they are in a full, enraged charge.
Have had several LEO's I have worked with have run in's with these animals. If they can many had told me they preferred weapon against them is a several thousand pound Ford Crown
Vic or Charger. Sometimes they die quickly from a gunshot wound (sometimes not).
A few years ago here an off duty LEO came upon one of these "drug dogs" that had been turned loose by it's owner after he changed locations. It was on top of a 10 year old girl tearing her up. He wanted to take a shot but it was a problem since the dog was on the girl. After 11 rounds of 9mm carefully placing his shots one severed it's spine and it dropped. The little girl survived but needed 105 stitches to put her back together.
Rather pit bulls are good or bad is not so much the question. When one goes bad it is a difficult animal to stop. And a 9mm, .45 or whatever is very similar to a human being. It takes good shot placement to put it down. They don't have psychological stops. If you have to put one down you will have a small target area, heavily armored so to speak, and enraged.
So if you can head it off and make it clear to the police and/or animal control that you have a serious problem that's the way to go. Photograph or better yet video the dog being violent. Let them handle it. Start building a paper trail on the dog and the neighbor right now. Which Glock or caliber? Not as much difference as people would have you believe. Shotgun with slugs is the best bet. Pistols suck for the job at hand. But probably all you will have. Just be damn good with whatever gun you have to use. Your rear and maybe those you care for will depend on it. Hopefully it won't come to that.

 

[slickab]

Practically, I would have to say .45 ACP, as 10mm is a bit much to carry for personal defense.
Early in this thread someone said something about this turning into, or being another pit bull thread. So I will spare you the details of my experiences surveying in the field for 35+ years, and pit bull encounters. But I will not spare telling you that they are the same as owning a very dangerous, unpredictable weapon with the lightest of hair triggers and they can not be unloaded, or the safety turned on!

 

[Current Resident]

I get the need to be armed in the neighborhood while walking with the spouse or pet. Having the need to defends oneself doesn't need to be explained to me, I am all for it. But I stand firm on being a neighbor first and a jerk shortly behind. To have this debate over caliber is been taken a bit too far imy opinion.
Approach the neighbor in question, maybe ask to introduce yourself to the dog and see if it is everything that you think is really dangerous.
If there is no reasonable solution then get the authority involved. Let them do their job, if things turn bad then there is a record of an incident.
Should you have to use your firearm to defend yourself there will already be a check mark on your side.
Try being a neighbor first, you might be surprised.
Think of what the media is doing to us and our culture. If it goes the wrong way can you afford it?

Elwood

 

[Railsplitter]

OK I'll throw a wild ideal out there, how about a 357 Magnum? I think one or two rounds from a 357 Magnum would take care of a 50 lb. dog determined or not. That's why I carry a G33 loaded with 357 Sig 125gr Underwood ammo, this combination has the same velocity and energy as a full size 357 Magnum but in a small easily concealed 10 shot package. The G33 should take care of a dog or dogs which ever you are faced with!

 

[Cav_Scout]

Hmmm . . . . .As i recall, the pit ran the other way holling after
a shot of PEPPER spray ! The pucker factor was high cause you have
to let them get close enough to squirt! didn't have to pull the gun out.
If he had latched on to me, bang bang . . . . .

 

[jbglock]

Why would caliber matter for self-defense against dogs but not against people?

Because it's easy to find people with lots of experience shooting dogs that will talk about it. It's not so easy to find people with lots of experience shooting people that will talk about it.

 

[10or45]

The bullet does the work. Hardcast lead will defeat a skull but that's not an ideal defense carry round. Any caliber 9mm or above. Leave the 380's at home.

 

[Tao77]

Some of these responses are interesting as if all dogs live inside of or stay inside of a fenced yard. I used to ride a bike many miles into the back country AL, rode past a house in the sticks with a 6' fence around it, chainlink. Two German Sheperds went up the fence and over to chase me, nipping at my heels. Somehow, I managed to outrun them, if they'd of caught me, I think I'd of been in trouble.

Sorry you're having these problems OP, is the dog fenced, free roam, leashed, etc.

I'd call animal patrol if it gets loose and have it taken away if the owner is indeed, a **** and unaware or unwilling to control their animal....

Nothing more I hate than a person who won't control their animals or kids...

IMO, dogs can be scary as ****. I'm a dog person, I've had large dogs, which is why I realize their power and keep my distance on unknown animals, where possible, of course...

I was on the job for 25 years. My duty weapon was a Smith and Wesson semi. I had to deal with a lot of scary dogs over the years. I had a Parolee order his very large pit bull to attack. Of course my weapon jammed and I had to go to my .38 S&W revolver. I hit the animal in the forehead and the round did not penetrate. But for my partner and him putting a couple of Mossberg 12 gauge rounds into his lungs, I would have been in very serious trouble. I had friends in the Department who had tried to take down a pit bull, rottweiler, etc. with our issued 40's. Sometimes the dogs went down right away sometimes the Deputy had to put a couple in the animals lungs. That is not an easy shot either. As crazy as this sound, I am not sure that anything less than a .45 would penetrate a pit bull's skull. By the way, why is it that a felon cannot own or possess a firearm but they can own pit bulls. I am as much of a dog lover as anyone, but these weapons can constitute a "deadly weapon."

OP, you don't have to explain to the GT dumbasses,
as you have seen we have plenty.

I too have owned and been around many pit bulls, some
are great dogs and some need a bullet in their head,
kinda like people.

Film the dog being aggressive a few times, if possible
film the owner being an arss too, it may help you later.

As bad is the dog is the owner is far worse, really watch
him and always be armed, a good load in a 9mm will do
but some are better.

You have asked a legitimate question. Sorry to see that most of the answers are not legitimate. Actually any service round will do the job. Personally I would probably carry something in a 45 caliber. But whatever you carry for self defense would probably suffice.

I totally agree with the last few responses. I think my Glock 32, 357 Sig would do the job as well as a 45. Hey, if the Secret Service is carrying the Glock 32, it must be able to handle just about anything. There are certain things I abide by, without fail. I am at the range once a month,at least. I fire all three of my weapons. I am also taking advanced tactical training. I retired in 2006 and my muscle memory has faded a bit. You have to be able to shoot well. For me, that is putting a couple of hundred rounds, with either hand, through my weapons each month. I rotate my magazines each month as well, to keep the mags in good working order. And I am continuing to hone my skills. If you are not ready to commit as much, you may be disappointed in the outcome.

You and the neighbors should video every encounter and call animal control/police, every time the dog goes after someone or is off a leash and their property. You miss shooting that moving dog and that round hits some kid in the neighborhood, your life will change forever. Look up videos that show pit bull attacks and police shooting them. I am amazed how tough and vicious those dogs can be. The neighbor doesn't want anyone on his property so I would stay off of it.

I have seen pepper spray fail, all kinds. My previous job was animal control. I have seen allot of things from all dogs. I have seen 9 mm fail allot. 45 auto will pentrate the skull of a 150-200 lb pit bull, even in a short barrel. I know seen that scenerio allot. Best to have evidence, if you think dog is aggressive.

You do have a problem. Don't doubt that for a second. Contact Animal Control or the Police repeatedly if needed. It is important that the problem is "on record" should you have to shoot the animal. Make sure the police have in their report that the owner has threatened neighbors. This is serious.

Forget the glock as a Code Enforcement Officer, Call animal control they will deal with the animal and you will not get brought into court.

***********************************************************
Above, a couple good answers about topic question. Also some answers with different calibers I didn't quot, some folks, as I see, have no idea about real answer for the situation which could become a life threatening matter. Some just teens with 'HollyWood" "publiceducation" low IQ mindset.
AKMIKEFMJ -
IMHO, you have a problem with your neighbor and his dog.
Read carefully answers from the quot and select, combine those into your plan.
I would listen to the professionals (LEO, AC, and experience individuals) advise, not those teens minded or "couch warriors" who can drop "grIzz" with 22LR.LOL.
Not knowing your age and physical abilities, I would say start with knowing your state gun laws and an advice from your local attorney will be helpful. Get a short training with local F/arms instructor.
Caliber for Glock would be 45acp, 10mm.
45 ACP more preferable as large and slower round because of surrounding houses.
Glock 30s, 30, 36 or 29sf seems to be the best for this purpose.
And good luck to avoid any confrontation with dog and your neighbor.

 

[QED]

Because it's easy to find people with lots of experience shooting dogs that will talk about it. It's not so easy to find people with lots of experience shooting people that will talk about it.

What is the evidence that handgun calibers which have been effective in SD against people have not been effective in SD against dogs?

 

[Cw1023]

Muscle memory with a specific carry gun outweighs the caliber of that gun so long as it is 9mm and up. There is no perfect handgun caliber for all scenarios a person may see. What works on a meth head may not work on a raging pit bull. My point to the OP was to practice 1st and worry about caliber 2nd. Just throwing an opinion out there. If it was me, I wouldn't wait for it to charge. I'd take a 3AM jog and leave it a hamburger with a little "spice" in it. I have had to kill an aggressive dog while charging. It was a bull mastiff that was coming after my girlfriends puppy. Two 230gr hydrashocks did the trick. First one hit the muzzle turning him to his right, the 2nd went through the left shoulder and dropped him. My familiarity with that Springfield 1911 is what was effective. A 45acp in someones hands that shoots a 9mm a whole lot better wont be effective. Just my opinion.

 

[Joseph Senko]

Pits have to be trained to fight. Owners buy them that way as guard dogs. There was a guy caught training a puppy to be vicious. He was arrested for cruelty to animals and the puppy was put down.

 

[Joseph Senko]

Do not use JHPs on an attacking animal. What you need is FMJs. They will penetrate a dog's skull with no problem. I know.

 

[happie2shoot]

Pits have to be trained to fight. Owners buy them that way as guard dogs. There was a guy caught training a puppy to be vicious. He was arrested for cruelty to animals and the puppy was put down.

Some don't need trained, they are just naturally mean, just like some people, same with most
breeds, you can get a bad one.

 

[happie2shoot]

The bullet does the work. Hardcast lead will defeat a skull but that's not an ideal defense carry round. Any caliber 9mm or above. Leave the 380's at home.

I believe you know this but just did not say it, the
cast boolit needs to be a flat point, usually the
bigger the flat, meplat, the better.

I shoot cast LFNs and WFNs in my 9mms all the time,
would not even worry about facing a wolf with them.

We had two BIG wolves run within 30yards from
us last year when we were hunting, think a 9mm
loaded right is a great stopper, they will have extra
penetration.

We use these in the nine, they are 163gr and 131gr.

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690692/6-cavity-mold-358-158-rf

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690306/6-cavity-mold-358-125-rf

The small one needs a bigger meplat and the big
one is a little heavy, one day we will make a mold
just for the job. It will be around 145gr and probably have a gc, I want all the FPS I can get and the gc lowers pressure and will allow more FPS.

Can do 1100 fps with the big one with no problem
in a 3.910'' P 95, I reamed the throat long in that
gun and also reamed the bevel base off the mold,
I like flat base boolits better.

 

[Chipofsc]

I own two pits and they are so sweet. I know a lot of people with pits and only know of one aggressive one. He made the dog that way for his protection. Just because the dog is barking at you don't mean he wants to eat you. Be nice take him a treat and win him over. Maybe he will attract his owner.

 

[happie2shoot]

Do not feed someones dog that you don't
know, no treats.

 

[jbglock]

What is the evidence that handgun calibers which have been effective in SD against people have not been effective in SD against dogs?

Why are you quoting me? That has nothing to do with what I wrote. The only evidence I would know of is what people see. The only thing I've seen that is effective vs. people when talking about common service calibers in handguns is good shot placement.

 

[QED]

Why are you quoting me? That has nothing to do with what I wrote. The only evidence I would know of is what people see. The only thing I've seen that is effective vs. people when talking about common service calibers in handguns is good shot placement.

What evidence that "people see" are you referring to and what is your point in regard to that "evidence"? Whether defending against dogs or people with a service caliber handgun, physiological incapacitation requires disruption of vital organ/s; good placement is a necessary but not sufficient condition. There is zero evidence that I am aware of which shows that disruption of vital organ/s in dogs requires a different caliber than what is effective in disruption of vital organ/s in people.

 

[boilergonzo]

I agree that police and animal control are critical, but as I noted, some locations do not have laws on the books that allow them to help in any way. The attacks on our dog (and various neighbor calls at other times) by the pit bull were documented, but didn't allow them to act until they violated a nuisance animal restriction that was placed on them. But DO call animal control to find out what your local laws are!!!

It is harder to hit a dog fighting your dog than I could have imagined, because not hitting MY dog just wasn't possible for how these dogs fought (Jerry Miculek couldn't even do it...). You either shoot as it approaches, or wait until one dog is in in the jaw grip of the other dog and they are a bit more still. Be prepared to have an alternate weapon like a ball bat, club, mace, etc. to assist if the gun is too late and your dog is in the fray (if it is attacking you, aiming will obviously be harder, but actually shooting at the dog will be FAR easier!)

Working in a vet clinic, pit bulls are thick (both bone AND muscle), and if they are intent and focused, can be tough to deter. I have helped used a couple steel pry bars to try to open the jaws of a pit bull and even as its teeth cracked and broke the dog refused to let go (one dramatic one was a vet's arm, and getting the dog to release was a memorable lesson in determination and tenacity... ). Prey drive trumps pain for some dogs, and it is crazy the endurance and pain tolerance some dogs can conjure up!!! A bullet that hits the brain and skull will obviously win (and win quickly), but don't count on shots to the body stopping the attack fast, or shots penetrating as you anticipate they should, as lots of shootings result in the dog NOT dropping. As pointed out, a charging pit bull looks NOTHING like the broad side of a deer or a standing human. The target is comparatively very small, and moving fast! It is more like relying only on a head shot on a human (with the head being roughly half the normal human head size!).

Again, I had at a minimum a 9mm on me when outside with my dog, but when I could have the 10mm G20sf, that was my choice. I never had a shot. Documentation and collective neighborhood fury/pressure was the path that ultimately prevailed.

Your problems are larger than just picking a caliber, though...