... All testing done with M&P shield 3.1” barrel and 4 layers of cotton over target.

... The Defender ammunitions company loaded 115 grain Hornady “XTP” ... This load had very soft recoil for a 115 grain subsonic and shot very accurately fro 5-25+ yards. ...

... The Hornady American Gunner 124 grain +P “XTP”.... This load had a kind of snappy recoil with moderate muzzle flip but a huge muzzle flash and quite load.

... The Hornady SUBSONIC 147 grain “XTP” ... This load shot with the softest push minimal felt recoil, muzzle flip or blast and was noticeably the most quiet of all “XTP” loads tested also shot very accurately from 5-25+ yards.

You fired them and described your impression of felt recoil/muzzle blast. Did any of the 3 loads strike you as THE ONE you'd wish to be using, offering you the best balance of controllability, recoil recovery and maintaining accuracy if having to shoot it rapidly, including 1-handed? (Since you didn't say anything about any of them not offering acceptable reliability.)

I don't use any of those loads, but only because I spent so many years using others, and invested in enough of them to see me through some time. I usually run 127gr +P+, 124gr +P and 147gr loads made by other makers (in that order of preference, most of the time).

Reliability, controllability and practical accuracy are my primary concerns. Penetration and expansion potential observed in the usual (gel testing) testing protocols are a decent option for comparison, but not to the point where I lose any sleep over it. Accurately placed hits matter first. Everything else follows, and circumstances may vary and affect things.

Suit yourself.

 

Well I actually dont carry any of these for EDC. My load of choice is the Winchester Elite defender 124 Grain +P its pretty much the Bonded Ranger T. But if I had to choose one from this test it would be the Hornady 124 grain +P “XTP”

 

 

I like that 124gr load doing 1250 fps on the deer,
do you know what powder and amount was used?
What was the M V ?

We have all three XTPs for loading, I use the 115gr
at over 1200 fps in the 3.1'' barrels. The 115 and 90gr
are rated for higher velocity than the 124 and 147.???
Have around 500 ninty gr 90gr XTPs too.

xtpvelocities-jpg.300854 (790×688) (defensivecarry.com)

LG tests does not show much difference between the
115 and the 124, the 115 is slower, note how one did not
expand fully, needed more speed, was only doing 1026 fps.
Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition - Ballistic Testing Data (luckygunner.com)

 

Personal/Home defense or woods carry
and what load do you guys carry or think is best???

I typically have 124s in 9mm. Critical Duty or the 124 XTP (Custom) if I can't find CD.

I had some ballistic gelatin left and I filled a 55 gallon drum with it and shot a bunch of loads from my Micro 9s, compact 9s, full size 9s as well as the integrally suppressed 9mm carbine and the 16" carbine. When I looked at all of the bullets and depths, the 124 CD just did the best across the course so to speak. Not that the XTPs, Golden Sabres, Win, and Gold dots were bad in 124. I did see some things I did not like with the 147s out of the shorter barrels and I blew a few 115s apart with the 16" barrel.

All that is a backdrop for what I really think though. We spend WAY too much time and effort disecting minor differences between good, quality 9mm defense ammo. 99% of the time, it won't matter what load you shoot a bad guy with, the result will be the same. And most folks will never ever fire their pistol in defense. Better off to pick one based on good information and then get a case of practice ammo and practice as much as you can.

 

Ye

I totally agree for an accurate shooter I’m sure even FMJ Hardball would work

 

Yeah, I've come to better appreciate the middleweight loads over the last 20 years. They seem to offer a better balance, and approach being a 'jack of all trades' across a wide range of conditions and circumstances.

The 147's can offer some deeper reach when it comes to defeating thicker bony structures (think cross-torso shots having to defeat the shoulder capsule), but I hope that would be a less likely scenario now that I'm retired. Looking at a wide range of OIS incidents, it seems the most likely bony structures which might intervene would be an upper or lower arm. However, then it's the angle of the impact and the potential for deflection that might cause even a larger caliber and heavier bullet to go off in some direction. TANSTAAFL. Aim (or index at close contact distance).

You know, I remember when many people thought that if a 9mm JHP could hopefully expand to .45", it was a great thing. Nowadays it sometimes seems like some people might turn their nose down at such 'small' expansion.

 

9mm federal 147 grain HST subsonic in my Micro 9 (927 FPS) but still the most expansion of any load at .70 and .73 caliber more expansion than a lot of big caliber Slugs 💨💥🐌

 

In all my 9mm Glocks, I use Hornady American Gunner 124gr +P for EDC and my girls (wife and daughters) use in Shield M&P 9mm EZs as well.

 

👀

 

I still remember when the then-new XTP got more press as a handgun hunting JHP, than as a self defense JHP.

 

That is propably because you are OLD,,,,, too.

We tested some in wet news paper in the 90s.

I shot five shots around 1/2'' at 25yds with a
six inch scoped GP 100, 158gr XTP, 2400 powder.

I like the XTP, if your gun don't shoot them
above average, you may need a new gun.

 

I don't carry loads with XTP for EDC, usually Rem G. Saber for that.

I do use XTP loads in 9mm or .40 when I carry in the field or woods, unless I am in big bear country (then it is .40 with a 200gr hardcast). It is for the same reason you mentioned that the Game Wardens carry XTP, extra penetration.

In 9mm for in the woods I carry the 124 gr XTP. Currently it is the Hornady Custom 124 gr load. When that box is gone, the next box is Am. Gunner 124 +P which has also been one of the best grouping ammos out of a G4 G26.

I shot a few Horn Custom 147 gr XTP out of my 8" barrel subgun where it groups really well. It will push them along fast enough to max their expansion. Should still be subsonic but around 1070-1100 fps. I have 147 gr. XTP bullets to load for my sub gun but have not gotten around to checking loads yet.

 

9mm federal 147 grain HST subsonic in my Micro 9 (927 FPS) but still the most expansion of any load at .70 and .73 caliber more expansion than a lot of big caliber Slugs 💨💥🐌

I've shot the 147 gr +P HST out of my 8" barrel too. Pretty good consistency (only ~ 2 others group better) and 1128 fps. Saving the box or 2 of +P for out of a micro also, since they discontinued them.

 

I've shot the 147 gr +P HST out of my 8" barrel too. Pretty good consistency (only ~ 2 others group better) and 1128 fps. Sving the few +P for out of a micro since they discontinued them. HST won't get as much penetration as XTP though.

TRUE! but for EDC the HST wins hands down over 95% of any 9mm ammo on the market

 

I also tested the Horady BLACK 124 grain standard pressure XTP. (1047 FPS) it performed almost identical to the faster snappier +P load and shot even better so these XTPs are designed to expand at a wide range of velocities

 

WARNING, WARING,
this is not data you should use in your reloads,
only use data from new manuals,
some of this is TOOOO HOT.

This is some pull downs from
some factory loads for many
9mm loads,

more wts at bottom of page,
9mm Stats (XD 4"/ EAA Limited 4.75") - Google Sheets

These are for 357, 10mm and 44 mag,

.357 Magnum Stats (GP100 4"/6") - Google Sheets

10mm Stats (4.6" G20 Stock White drsjr1969 YouTube/ 4.75" EAA Limited Pro and 6" EAA Hunter Green) Gel by Choppinbloc - Google Sheets

.44 Magnum Stats (7.5" Redhawk Green/8.5" Raging Bull drsjr1969 YouTube White) - Google Sheets

 

Out of all the Hornady ammo I have tested in the big three defense calibers the best result I got was from there 40 Cal Tap round. however I don’t think they even make these anymore. all the XTPs I have tested didn’t expand very much and penetrated less then other rounds. gold dots and HST’s are a much better choice in my opinion.

365.jpg

• 500 MAGMIKE
• Apr 9, 2021

 

 

What would be interesting is if someone could review 1000ish shooting, esp fatal ones. Then establish caliber, load, weapon, depth of penetration and how much expansion for a in an actual human body. Yes, there are a lot of variables that could effect incapacitation time but that's the real world.

 

What would be interesting is if someone could review 1000ish shooting, esp fatal ones. Then establish caliber, load, weapon, depth of penetration and how much expansion for a in an actual human body. Yes, there are a lot of variables that could effect incapacitation time but that's the real world.
[/QUOTES Who cares…Ammo testing is mostly for kicks and fun once again who cares if the projectile doesn’t mushroom into a perfect flower pedal. More Real life incapacitating shots have came from FMJ hardball than anything else because it’s cheap and always readily available and what is mostly used. Most bad men are ignorant and don’t know good ammo if it slapped them in the face

 

BTW. This post was for reading entertaining purposes only stop worrying about which ammo is best. A well placed Cheap dusty 115 grain FMJ will stop a Boogieman just as FAST as the best top name brand expensive JHP ammo.

 

And yet, you carry Winchester Elite 124 +P JHP.

 

Very interesting

 

115grn "XTP" is my EDC load. Although I hope to never need to find out JUST how effective it is, I carry it for the reasons outlined above.

 

I typically have 124s in 9mm. Critical Duty or the 124 XTP (Custom) if I can't find CD.

I had some ballistic gelatin left and I filled a 55 gallon drum with it and shot a bunch of loads from my Micro 9s, compact 9s, full size 9s as well as the integrally suppressed 9mm carbine and the 16" carbine. When I looked at all of the bullets and depths, the 124 CD just did the best across the course so to speak. Not that the XTPs, Golden Sabres, Win, and Gold dots were bad in 124. I did see some things I did not like with the 147s out of the shorter barrels and I blew a few 115s apart with the 16" barrel.

All that is a backdrop for what I really think though. We spend WAY too much time and effort disecting minor differences between good, quality 9mm defense ammo. 99% of the time, it won't matter what load you shoot a bad guy with, the result will be the same. And most folks will never ever fire their pistol in defense. Better off to pick one based on good information and then get a case of practice ammo and practice as much as you can.

What did you see that turned you off of the 147 gr out shorter barrels?

 

What did you see that turned you off of the 147 gr out shorter barrels?

Lack of expansion at 50 yards.

 

I carried the 124+p XTP for a while, current is 124 HST standard pressure. I definitely wouldn't feel undergunned with any of the XTPs although I prefer 124 grain and up in any 9mm.