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Analyzing 1800 Shootings: Which Caliber Has the Best Stopping Power?

18K views 358 replies 54 participants last post by  CDW4ME  
#1 · (Edited)
#9 ·
This.


 
#10 ·
Well, to be fair, perhaps trying to come up with a "definitive one-size-fits-all theory" that can explain a complex, multi-influence subject is always going to result in difficulty?

On the other hand, perhaps trying to explain how the shooter-related issues - like skillset development, knowledge, recurrent training/practice and experience - might adversely affect being able to achieve success in a dynamic situation may be a simpler task. ;)

Hits matter.

Accurate hits matter more.

Accurate and effectively placed (anatomically) hits may matter most of all.

Misses really matter, too, but never in a good way.

Caliber? Sure. Somewhere down a ways on the list of things that may matter.

Statistics can sometimes be used to lure folks down the rabbit hole.
 
#27 ·
I wonder why .380 and .32 cal performs better than 9MM -

Oh I know - the study has to be flawed.
It's not the "study" that's flawed, it the theory that the study is based upon, followed by selectively choosing data that supports the theory.

And the theory is "Ballistic Equivelence" which is similar to the theory of Moral Equivalence, where one set of actions is no better than another.
 
#23 ·
I haven't been deeply in the firearm community for more than a year. However, I'm already tired of many old tropes like the one you are having to pre-empt. "What you don't think .22 or .32 is powerful, well then do you want to be shot with it or how about stand down range?" On one level, sure, I get it, but also that doesn't answer a more serious analysis of the relative power of these cartridges.

On another tangent, I am rewatching the movie The Irishman, about the mob hitman. In one hit he performs he reviews his guns for the situation and chooses a "lady gun" but not overly loud .32 revolver, probably in the .32 S&W Long category.
 
#29 ·
The only scientific way for this question to be answered can only be done in two ways.

One method was done by the Nazis and imperial Japan. China might have done this but we don’t do that here. The closest was the use of pigs or cattle hence the . 45 caliber.

The second method is expensive. Recreate the human body . Use the devices they use to train surgeons.

Each caliber and type of bullet? Way too expensive.

But we all know, shot placement is king but there are plenty of rounds with real world experience to judge them as effective or ineffective.
 
#32 ·
The only scientific way for this question to be answered can only be done in two ways.

One method was done by the Nazis and imperial Japan. China might have done this but we don’t do that here. The closest was the use of pigs or cattle hence the . 45 caliber.

The second method is expensive. Recreate the human body . Use the devices they use to train surgeons.

Each caliber and type of bullet? Way too expensive.

But we all know, shot placement is king but there are plenty of rounds with real world experience to judge them as effective or ineffective.
To your first point, I think you are referring to human experimentation. This is one reason for Operation Paperclip after WWII, where Nazi scientists were gathered up by the US and given immunity. The US, and USSR, captured a lot of research data including that obtained via unethical means. I have to assume they didn't ignore weapons research when they didn't ignore other research.
 
#31 ·
If there was a caliber that was significantly better, we’d all be shooting it.
There isn’t, pros and cons to each of them.
Amateurs argue about calibers, professionals argue about tactics and training.
I heard that somewhere...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#34 · (Edited)
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
If anyone knows who originally wrote that quote please share your knowledge.
 
#41 ·
I think far too much is made of pistol bullets and their performance. Rather, I prefer to think of the results in the context of the fight. Recall the cop who shot 33 rounds at a perp and scored 14 hits without a full stop...45 ACP fail with six vital hits. 38 Special from snubby revolvers failed in the Miami shootout. Then we hear stories of the opposite...guys giving up after being shot through the flesh of the ear, face shots, heart shots, etc.

I dunno at this point. I think the old timers, despite the more limited bullet technology, were mostly right about slow and heavy bullets. But, we also now have faster shooting guns (for the average person--Jelly Bryces and Bob Mundens of the world notwithstanding), there is certainly something to be said for pulverizing important squishy bits with a burst of three to six 9mm bullets in either a vertical line or circular pattern. One guy stated that a combative felon never failed to fall down when shot in the face three times with 9mm FMJ. Then again, an old cop I did summer work for told me he shot a rioter in the '68 DC riots with 357 Magnum and the bullet ricocheted off his belt buckle and up into his face. The bullet didn't stop the perp and he had to fight his way out with his baton. The rioters damaged his back and he was medically retired a few years later.

"You can do everything right and still lose."
--John Murphy, FPF Training

I think John's statement about covers it. Choose a good gun, quality ammunition, the best gear and training you can afford, and hope for the best.
 
#43 ·
I’m of the opinion that .45 ACP probably is a better “man stopper” than it’s equivalent in 9mm.

BUT... there are many other variables that are far more important than the caliber of the projectile used.

All (9mm, .357 SIG, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W and .45 ACP) are adequate for humans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#236 ·
I’m of the opinion that .45 ACP probably is a better “man stopper” than it’s equivalent in 9mm.

BUT... there are many other variables that are far more important than the caliber of the projectile used.

All (9mm, .357 SIG, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W and .45 ACP) are adequate for humans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We are learning the mouse calibers are doing well. Depending how far away you are with a 2-3 inch bbl. When you decide to launch it. I began,,, to determine that 25 ft was adequate. As I aged I kept reducing that distance by yards. Now that I pack a 10 shooter, 380 or 32 ACP W/ sometimes a 22 LR/Mag. I think 1 yard is plenty far away for me. If I cannot connect with my adversary at that distance.... I probably need to be put down at point blank!
 
#52 · (Edited)
A calibers relative effectiveness can be see in simple gel tests and ballistic numbers. If we are just talking calibers but problem is there are many other factors that are involved in real life shooting sats that muddy the waters beyond just caliber difference to the point of making caliber comparisons impossible in shootings. Then there is the question of what exactly defines stopping power, who defines it and how many different people are making value judgments to that effect.


If you want to know which caliber is best for stopping power ask a deer hunter which caliber he gets best results with a 9mm or 357 Mag, that would point you in the right direction.