[LApm9]

My Daughter-in-Law wants to learn how to defend herself with a handgun. As she weighs about 90 pounds and has small hands, I think that she will prefer a metal framed, single stack handgun. The metal frame will dampen the recoil and the single stack will fit her hand better

SO......it looks like a M1911 in 9mm or .38 super would be a good candidate.

I have heard that the shorter length of the 9x19 mm degrades the reliability of the M1911 (which the SA EMP should remedy), but the .38 Super has limited ammunition choices.

So, how is the reliability of the 9 mm M1911s?
How reliable is the SA EMP with 4" barrels?

How is the recoil of the .38 Super? Is is noticeably greater than the 9 x 19 mm?

They have a toddler, so the force required to cycle the slide provides another level of safety (above the gun vault it will be kept in), and the trigger will be much more friendly than that of a DA revolver, hence the M1911 idea.

Thanks in advance!

 

[fnfalman]

My Daughter-in-Law wants to learn how to defend herself with a handgun. As she weighs about 90 pounds and has small hands, I think that she will prefer a metal framed, single stack handgun. The metal frame will dampen the recoil and the single stack will fit her hand better

While mostly true, it depends on how small her hands are. She may need the slim grip panels instead of standard grip panels.

SO......it looks like a M1911 in 9mm or .38 super would be a good candidate.

Yes, it would.

I have heard that the shorter length of the 9x19 mm degrades the reliability of the M1911 (which the SA EMP should remedy), but the .38 Super has limited ammunition choices.

Supposedly that's true but I have yet to have a feeding issue with my 9mm M1911s that is based on cartridge length. It usually has to do with the guns don't feed hollowpoints and a ramp & throat job fixes that problem real quick and easy.

So, how is the reliability of the 9 mm M1911s?

I have full confidence in carrying my Colt 9mm Defender for self-defense. Otherwise, I wouldn't be carrying it.

How reliable is the SA EMP with 4" barrels?

I don't know the answer to that question.

How is the recoil of the .38 Super? Is is noticeably greater than the 9 x 19 mm?

Standard loads (no exotic loads from Cor-Bon or Buffalo Bore or Underwood, but regular factory loads like Winchester, Remington, SIG, Aguila, Armscor, Mag-Tech) recoil comparison is about of a 9mm +P. Noticeable but nothing outrageous. The hotter loads from Corbon, Buffalo Bore and Underwood are really hot.

What's more important is the felt recoil. 9mm recoil is snappy while .38 Super recoil is pushy.

They have a toddler, so the force required to cycle the slide provides another level of safety (above the gun vault it will be kept in), and the trigger will be much more friendly than that of a DA revolver, hence the M1911 idea.

Thanks in advance!

Use a gun safe and the toddler will not be a problem. However, it seems like the 9mm and .38 Super have stronger recoil spring/hammer springs than the .45ACP.

 

[MGGLOCK9]

Yes, a 9mm 1911 is a very good solution. I have read that the 9mm in a 1911 isa reliability issue-but but my 9mm Springfield Champion is flawless. Plus the bull barrel dampens muzzle flip. And the fiber optic sight is excellent.

You did not say it would be for CCW or home/shop only. The Champion is hardly a CCW for a small framed woman. If she wants to carry, a Mustang XSP .380 is a superb choice. Locked breech means low recoil. The rough finish of the polymer grip is a plus. You can lock and load with the safety on-she might like that.

And 12.3 oz. with empty mag.

The recently announced a Springfield 911/.380 will be another option-same size/weight but excellent night sights. (Shipping in March.)
Good luck.

And please, no comments about how the .380 is worthless. it is not---and it is way better than fingernails..

 

[LApm9]

Allow me to clarify. This gun would be for home defense.

 

[faawrenchbndr]

38 Super is my favorite loading for the 1911

 

[Glock1911]

Wish I still had my stainless 9mm Commander. That was a sweet shooting gun.

 

[fnfalman]

Allow me to clarify. This gun would be for home defense.

It wouldn’t matter in self defense shooting but in my Colts, the .38 Super groups a lot tighter than 9 or .45.

It’s not anecdotal when ten of my .38 Supers shoot tighter groups than the three 9mms or dozen .45s including a couple of National Matches.

 

[19trax95]

How about something like a pistol caliber carbine or pistol. Like an AR9 type gun? Very little felt recoil and very easy to get on target.

But pretty much any mid to fill size 9mm handgun I've shot and owned, has been pretty soft shooting. Especially with heavier bullets. I've found the heavynfor caliber stuff seems to push more than it does flip the muzzle, which makes it feel softer shooting.

 

[BuckyP]

Do you think she’ll spend some time at the range? A semi auto is going to require a little bit of famiarity to be able to operate. If she’s only going to shoot it once, then throw it in the safe, might want to rethink the revolver.

 

[GlockFan7]

My Daughter-in-Law wants to learn how to defend herself with a handgun. As she weighs about 90 pounds and has small hands, I think that she will prefer a metal framed, single stack handgun. The metal frame will dampen the recoil and the single stack will fit her hand better

SO......it looks like a M1911 in 9mm or .38 super would be a good candidate.

I have heard that the shorter length of the 9x19 mm degrades the reliability of the M1911 (which the SA EMP should remedy), but the .38 Super has limited ammunition choices.

So, how is the reliability of the 9 mm M1911s?
How reliable is the SA EMP with 4" barrels?

How is the recoil of the .38 Super? Is is noticeably greater than the 9 x 19 mm?

They have a toddler, so the force required to cycle the slide provides another level of safety (above the gun vault it will be kept in), and the trigger will be much more friendly than that of a DA revolver, hence the M1911 idea.

Thanks in advance!

Don't ask us. You'll end up buying the gun we like and she'll put it in a shoe box in the top of the closet and it'll never see the light of day again. It won't do her any good if she only gets it to make you happy. Take her shopping instead. Let her handle different handguns. It may not be a 1911 or even a semi-auto. If there's a rental range anywhere in your area, take her there. I see you're in South Louisiana. I don't know how close you or she is to Baton Rouge, but there's a place there called Precision Firearms that rents. From time to time, they have ladies classes.

 

[Jason D]

My Daughter-in-Law wants to learn how to defend herself with a handgun. As she weighs about 90 pounds and has small hands...

A single stack full sized 1911 in 9mm feels like a .22 recoil wise, but it also weighs in at 40oz.


I'd do with her what I would do with anyone I am teaching to shoot. If they were a younger child or teen, they would be shooing a .22 pistol.

If they were an adult and had zero experience with firearms, they'd be learning on a the good old K Frame S&W in .38 special. You say she wants to learn and have something for defensive use. Look for a nice 686 Smith with a 4" barrel.

She can shoot .38's all day and get a taste for magnum power so she can step up to a good .357 defensive load.

A semiauto pistol is just a tad busy for new shooters. Things can be forgotten when under stress, where as a revolver can be picked up and have the trigger pulled until empty. The downside is that capacity is lacking unless you get a 7 or 8 shot gun.

If you were really going to work a lot with her and give her some actual training in the use of a gun, most anything would do.





I have watched several youtube videos recently about gun fails. The most prevailing theme is ladies acting like waifs and having guns torqued or blown from their hands.

It's been my experience that they can pretty much handle whatever is put in their hands. My own Sister is small, short, and has small hands. She is also a recoil junkie that laughs like a nut when touching of large caliber weapons. It matters little if it's a .45 auto, or a 12ga with magnum turkey loads.

 

[MGGLOCK9]

And if it turns out she likes revolvers but had a toddler... Smith made a "lemon squeezer' with a grip safety. Just about impossible for small hands to discharge it. You can find them if you look. Load with wadcutters and watch her shoot!

 

[GlockFan7]

I've told this story before, but my step mother wanted a semi auto to replace her .38 S&W revolver. Her complaint was the weight. I asked her to try to operate the slide on my S&W Bodyguard and she couldn't budge it. The I handed her my Glock 43 and she couldn't operate it either. I gun she can't operate is no good to anyone. Let her pick. It could very well save her life.

 

[kyjd75]

The inability to rack the slide is a problem for many women. Another alternative is a .38 special loaded with wadcutters. Absolutely no recoil and very little blast. A great round to use to learn how to shoot.

 

[Bren]

My Daughter-in-Law wants to learn how to defend herself with a handgun. As she weighs about 90 pounds and has small hands, I think that she will prefer a metal framed, single stack handgun. The metal frame will dampen the recoil and the single stack will fit her hand better

SO......it looks like a M1911 in 9mm or .38 super would be a good candidate.

I taught an NRA basic pistol class with a girl in it who was about that size and had never fired one before. She brought her dad's full-sized Kimber .45 . When we did the live fire part, she put every shot through the same hole in the bullseye, then borrowed a Glock and a revolver and did the same with them.

 

[hardluk1]

LApm9 It seems many people do not know the commander was designed as a 9MM , yep that right . 38super and 45acp came later in the commanader . The 38 super is more like a 9mm+P+ + for higher pressure and more of a snappier recoil . A 1911 can run thin grip panels for a width in the low 1.1 range and a medium or short reach trigger can replace a long trigger many 1911's used as standard triggers so small handed shooters can have better trigger control as . MY wife carries a Kimber stainless ultra 9mm with 2200 rounds fired with zero issues and at 26oz for the ultra /defender size 1911 its very easy for a small person to conceal this size pistol and the 28 to 30oz for a 4" or commander 4.25" pistol the 147gr standard pressure ammo is very mild to shoot but hard for a small person to conceal . OH , the 9mm or 38super does NOT have stronger recoil springs compared to a 45acp version !!

kyjd75 38sp with wadcutters ?? A revolver with a far heavier and longer trigger pull that will effect accuracry for a newer shooter . Yea right .

 

[LApm9]

I have a nice stable of .38s for her to try out, but have noted that some women don't like the heavy trigger pull. I am going to first let her dry fire all of them, as well as a M1911, a CZ 75, a G19, and a Kahr to see what size frame suits her.

Phase 2 is to have her live fire the ones that fit her hand so she will not be temped to choose too light a frame. This will start with the 40 oz CZ first, and a 686 with wadcutters if she hasn't ruled out revolvers.

So, once we have identified whether she wants a single stack, double stack, or revolver, and whether she wants a weight of 20-30 oz, 30-40 oz, or 40+oz, THEN we will go shopping among all those nice gun shops in Baton Rouge for the final selection.

The one piece of data I lacked was whether the full size (not shortened like the EMP) M1911 would function reliably when chambered in 9mm. I once heard a podcast with Wilson Guns where the Wilson rep went on about how their throat mods made the M1911 reliable in 9mm. It sounds like the consensus is that the M1911 IS RELIABLE in 9MM.

 

[LApm9]

Do you think she’ll spend some time at the range? A semi auto is going to require a little bit of famiarity to be able to operate. If she’s only going to shoot it once, then throw it in the safe, might want to rethink the revolver.

She probably will, if the gun is not too punishing. She WANTS to defend herself, and has a history of mastering anything she wants to do.

 

[Jason D]

I have a nice stable of .38s for her to try out, but have noted that some women don't like the heavy trigger pull. I am going to first let her dry fire all of them, as well as a M1911, a CZ 75, a G19, and a Kahr to see what size frame suits her.

Phase 2 is to have her live fire the ones that fit her hand so she will not be temped to choose too light a frame. This will start with the 40 oz CZ first, and a 686 with wadcutters if she hasn't ruled out revolvers.

So, once we have identified whether she wants a single stack, double stack, or revolver, and whether she wants a weight of 20-30 oz, 30-40 oz, or 40+oz, THEN we will go shopping among all those nice gun shops in Baton Rouge for the final selection.

The one piece of data I lacked was whether the full size (not shortened like the EMP) M1911 would function reliably when chambered in 9mm. I once heard a podcast with Wilson Guns where the Wilson rep went on about how their throat mods made the M1911 reliable in 9mm. It sounds like the consensus is that the M1911 IS RELIABLE in 9MM.

The idea of a 9mm in a 1911 is pretty old. Colt wanted the pistol contract post WWII when the military was looking for a smaller lighter weight gun in 9mm. The Commander was born in 1949/50 and was chambered in 9mm. I can't speak personally about that set up, as I never had a 9mm Commander.

I can say though that today's guns with the Wilson Nowlin ramped barrel are very reliable. I'm pretty sure that most use that set up today. I know my 9mm RO's are set up with a ramped barrel and neither have exhibited a malfunction. They've both been fed a mix of hollow points and lead semi-wadcutters I've played with.





This has nothing to do with 1911's, but more on small pistols in general.
Some companies use a dual spring recoil spring that makes it easier to manipulate the slide. The S&W Shield is one of them.

 

[LApm9]

The idea of a 9mm in a 1911 is pretty old. Colt wanted the pistol contract post WWII when the military was looking for a smaller lighter weight gun in 9mm. The Commander was born in 1949/50 and was chambered in 9mm. I can't speak personally about that set up, as I never had a 9mm Commander.

I can say though that today's guns with the Wilson Nowlin ramped barrel are very reliable. I'm pretty sure that most use that set up today. I know my 9mm RO's are set up with a ramped barrel and neither have exhibited a malfunction. They've both been fed a mix of hollow points and lead semi-wadcutters I've played with.





This has nothing to do with 1911's, but more on small pistols in general.
Some companies use a dual spring recoil spring that makes it easier to manipulate the slide. The S&W Shield is one of them.

Could you give me a quick run down on which 9 mm M1911s have a ramped barrel? It looks like the SA EMP does. The Range Officer seems like a great choice, but funny that the SA parts diagrams show an unramped barrel!