... . So with all this being stated would any of you guys ever use has used 9mm FMJ Hardball or EDC/Personal defense???

No.

 

So with all this being stated would any of you guys ever use has used 9mm FMJ Hardball or EDC/Personal defense???

Only as a last resort.

 

Same here likewise 😂

 

WADR, your "test" is not representative of anything except what you shot. Water and wood do NOT even remotely imitate human flesh. Actually, ballistic gel does not either, but it is closer and consistent, which your test is not.

I know it is hard for some to grasp that ballistic engineers, who actually understand this stuff, do test and develop handgun projectiles to be as effective as they can within the constraints of them being fired from a relatively low powered and small firearm, but they do.

A 9mm FMJ is taking a marginal caliber and making it even less effective. Just spend the $10 extra for a box of good defense grade ammo and call it good.

 

Who cares. This is for fun and kicks it doesn’t matter what you shoot it’s about building accuracy and confidence Cowboy… BTW I carry Federal 147 grain HST

 

If it’s hardball, the load/brand doesn’t make much difference, as they all will over-penetrate, and they all should feed more reliably than non-round-nose bullets.

You’ll get a ton of “hell no” responses, and I wouldn’t carry 9mm 115gr hardball for defense, either, since I have better options, but I will say you could do a lot worse than 115gr hardball for defense. Pretty much any smaller cartridge comes to mind.

 

Sure. It's what the Army always gave me for self-defense and I have quite a bit of it at home. While I prefer a good hollowpoint, I'd certainly carry FMJ if that's what I had. The odds of it making any difference are very slim and the odds of the hollowpoint being better are even slimmer. If Special Agent Grogan had been carrying FMJ ammo on 4/11/86, it's likely only the bad guys would have been killed in the Miami shootout with Platt and Matix.

 

Very good point, and correct.

 

It’s a matter of your available options.

First choice of course would be a quality premium defensive hollow point……
That said a very high percentage of bad guys are going to turn tail and find something better to do once you return fire / start getting hits.

Just now thinking about this, I think getting the first hit ( + shot placement) is probably more important that whether you are using handgun FMJ’s or JHP’s .
Just an uninformed opinion.

 

Yes, if it was what I had available to me I would use 115 grain hardball for SD. It is still a chunk of lead and copper traveling at 1200 fps. Just have to place it where it will do the most good. That said, I WOULD NOT choose WWB as the ammo of choice. It is really the only 9mm fmj that I have had consistent failures with.

 

Just an uninformed opinion.

Eh, don't sell yourself short. That is at least a theory.

 

Not my first choice.

That being said, a few years back I got some of the Federal American Eagle 147gr FMJ. It has a nice flat nose like a wadcutter. I said to myself, that wouldn't be a bad option for self defense since hollow points are more expensive and I hadn't got into reloading yet. Still have a couple hundred rounds of it and would use it before I used a spearpoint FMJ. But use what you have available.

 

I have carried that on very cold snowy days. Just to be sure of penetrating

 

9mm FMJ was never called "hardball"

"hardball" was a term reserved for 45 acp FMJ (New shooters had to figure this out for themself in the 1980's)

Gather round for a tale of "hardball" and the even more nonsensical "caliber war"

"wouldn't want to get shot by it" - duh
"nobody volunteer to get shot by it" - duh
"better than nothing" - low goal

 

Of course you would use it if it's all you had. Does that even need to be asked?

 

If I were restricted 9mm FMJ, it would be the new Winchester M1152 9mm FMJ-FP. That loading is really fast, loaded to higher quality standards than the run of the mill WWB, and has a nice wide FP. Second choice would be a 147 FMJ-FP, and third would be the Winchester 124 gr NATO load. The FP of the first two should perform better than the RN of the load you list or the NATO load.

 

Winchester's statement on this flat nose +p round says:

"The Ball cartridge is intended for use against enemy personnel, for training, and for force protection.”

 

TheWess, you chronographed that velocity out of your Shield, or just stating what's on the box? And what group size can you hold at 35 yards with the Shield?

 

Prefect for self defense against fresh fruit.

 

Well, if I had to live with the state-of-the-art in 9mmP bullet technology of the early 20th century, I'd make do. Ditto if stuck having to carry .38SPL RNL loads.

Fortunately, time and technology has moved on, so I'll save that for a last resort situation.

The only time I use Ball loads for 9mm or .38SPL is at the range, if it's what's available for free for a qual.

 

Well sure if its all I had but still a poor choice. Water jugs are fun to shoot but make no mistake, that is NOT what happens when a bullet strikes meat. Ball ammo is truly the last resort. If that is the case I want the biggest ice pick I can get, make mine a 45acp..

 

You're not thinking big enough.

 

^^^ Why are his eyes closed? What was he aiming at?

 

Probably the result of the Big Badda Boom.

 

It's not like the use of Ball for 9mmP hasn't been done and tried in LE in the US, you know. It's just that concerns for threat perforations and the unintended wounding of innocents has demonstrated itself to be a concern. Ditto for ricochets which remain more intact and retain more mass (versus fragmented and 'splattered' after impact with hard mediums). There are reasons JHP loads became increasingly demanded for urban policing.

Sure, in the service revolver days there were some places that decried the use of 'inhumane hollowpoints', and JSP bullets were used by some agencies. The compromise was the potential for more deformation with flat SP bullets than with RN bullets, and no PR concerns due to hollowpoints. There were even some complaints of LSWC bullets, because of the wide meplats and 'sharp shoulders' that cut tissues and might dig into bony surfaces better (some truth to that, which is why hunters used them when all-lead bullets were chosen ).

Do you expect the risks to be less concerning for personal defense if Ball ammo is used?

The thing about freedom of choice is that consequences come along with it. TANSTAAFL

 

Id never use hardball/FMJ(i use both interchangeable also so dont worry.. I also say Shotty and dont bother correcting people that call a magazine a clip.. i think its AWESOME that stuff triggers some people and yes im making fun of them for getting triggered ) as primary HD its practice/plinking only.. unless some end of the world **** happened then id hope id gotten caught up in what ever ended it and didn't have to worry about it ...or use whatever ia available if I wasn't.

 

Unless I’m mistaken, .45acp hardball killed many germans, japanese, north koreans, and red chinese during WWII and the Korean War.

9mm fmj was never considered hardball.

 

It stopped killing enemies once hollowpoints and GT came along

 

“They all fall to hardball” ….. especially if your targets are elephants 🐘, rhinos 🦏, and water buffalo 🐃. 🤨

400 grns of .404 Jeffery hardball:

 

FMJ aka "hardball" has been effectively killing for over 100 yrs. At one time, even gun guru, Clint Smith, extolled it's virtue saying" I carry hardball in my 45acp because I know it will feed reliably" when someone claimed that was not effective, Clint reportedly answered;" I'll just keep poking nice round 45 cal holes in you till you quit"

 

A friend and police officer got in a shootout with a deranged perp. Officer put two 9mm rounds in his chest-close range-and the perp didn't fall down. Friend went to lgs the next day and traded his Glock 17 for a 21. He was carrying fmj.

 

Why did he stop at 2 rounds?

 

Boy did those 1 gallon Water Jugs make these bullets perform exactly as Box said 🤔💭

As they say, ignorance is bliss. I'm sure you will have a blissful day.

 

A friend and police officer got in a shootout with a deranged perp. Officer put two 9mm rounds in his chest-close range-and the perp didn't fall down. Friend went to lgs the next day and traded his Glock 17 for a 21. He was carrying fmj.

well he had terrible shot placement the vitals are a small 4 inch circle ⭕ center mass and towards the left side Practice makes perfect anything Heart🫀, Spine🩻, head🤯 , is lethal but the lungs 🫁 are a lethal fight stopper too

 

...then I think the Winchester white Box 115 Grain FMJ “Hardball” would work the best. View attachment 1239984

Winchester WB 115 grain is not trustworthy, it's better than their WWB .380, but not by much. I'd trust any other non reman 115gr over WWB.

 

Winchester WB 115 grain is not trustworthy, it's better than their WWB .380, but not by much. I'd trust any other non reman 115gr over WWB.

Yes sir but did you understand that this thread was for fun and kicks…I’ve posted some pictures of the Real EDC ammo I test.. Trust me when I say I have extensive ballistic expertise