PWS. Get 28 rd Duramags .

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PWS. Get 28 rd Duramags .

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

I second this. PWS upper with 28 round Duramags.

 

Bear Creek Arsenal is probably the most affordable option. You get a totally complete upper with BCG. However they only parkerize their stuff — no melonite.

Unfortunately there aren’t a whole lot of reputable and reliable x39 upper options post Covid.

Palmetto State Armory had a really good product but nothing is currently in stock.

Radical Firearms x39 uppers are good to go if you order directly from them. Post Covid, their reseller product barrels seem to be made from 4140 instead of 4150 steel. However you don’t get a BCG.

Diamondback Firearms has x39 uppers listed but out of stock.

Rock River Arms has complete upper options available.

Windham Weaponry has product available for back order.

Anderson Manufacturing lists a complete x39 upper in stock.

Aim Surplus has excellent x39 BCGs.

Duramags are 100% reliable and the 28 rounders fit in 5.56 NATO mag holders.

Steel case is fine. It just means more wear. For -$300 uppers you’ll shoot many thousands of dollars in ammo before you’ll have an issue. I personally know Radical and Bear Creek are 100%. Buy a spare x39 extractor and/or bolt or two if you’re going to be relying on it for self-defense.

 

First of all, they're fun.

Mine started out life as a complete Radical Firearms AR, heavy barrel, carbine gas. Actually quite accurate but definitely overgassed. Running H3 buffer and Sprinco Blue to tame it. Mostly reliable but was a tolerance stacking issue I discovered through a lot of testing that led me to rebuild the upper with an Aero receiver which fixed the issue. They do eat extractors. Broke 2 in 2000 rounds, the 2nd was a RF also, but they don't sell spares and won't send you anymore. During covid, x39 extractors were impossible to find so I put in a BCM extractor to test longevity and works fine so far. I'm surprised my bolt hasn't broken yet since I've seen RF 5.56 bolts go in 1500 rounds. The only brand of ammo that has choked the gun was Silver Bear. Anything else runs like a top.

I would look for a midlength gas upper if they exist. If I was building from scratch I'd use a Faxon midlength barrel and BCG. I sold most of my 30 round Duramags awhile back and replaced with 20 rounders as they're more handy and seem to be more reliable. X39 AR's are fun but they're not something I'd ever rely on, and I have better options for that.

 

I'd say PWS or nothing

7.62x39 ARs tend to have lots of problems, from mags to ammo issues and so on. PWS Is one of the few I've seen that consistently run reliably

there are a few other more boutique manufacturers who make similarly high quality 7.62x39mm ARs, like maxim defense

 

Rabbit hole.

I have several AR pattern 7.62x39 guns, including PSA and PWS. Tried different things. Lot's of fun.
I agree that PWS is the most logical choice, because it emulates the piston concept of the rifle that the caliber was designed for (AK). The weak point will be the lower and the mags it gets matched with.

The PSA has a lower that uses standard AK mags, matched to their PSA 7.62x39 upper, but the lower is not designed to work with non-PSA uppers. <-- but it was built and tuned to work, and it works well.

The mags, the mags, the mags....... There is always the question of whether a 7.62x39 AR style mag (any brand) is going to feed reliably if loaded beyond the curve .

 

I have a PSA KS47 - it has been 100% reliable with Pmags but steel AK mags are hit and miss -

Some of the steel mags drop free while shooting - after having a full mag hit my foot a few times I started trying to figure out what the problem was - I think the spring that holds the mag catch is weak - but the problem doesn't happen with Pmags so I just use those.

 

AR- pattern mags are not reliable, in terms of function, not fit. They are hit and miss depending on your build (components of the AR upper).
I am talking about AR- pattern 7.62x39 mags, not AK-style mags. That is the main weakness of the whole AR- style 7.62x39

The PSA lower is the only one I know of that is designed to use AK style mags.

 

There are others that take AK style magazines. AR's that take AK mags are better for shooting 7.62x39.

PSA manufacturers two different style AR uppers in x39. One requires their proprietary lower that uses AK mags and one that uses a standard AR lower.

It is compatible with a few lowers like Michael's Machines, MGI and Windham's RMCS.

Which buffer and spring have you been using with the 7.62x39mm upper assembly?

There is no one answer for this. For PSA's KS47, an AR10 spring and H buffer is recommended.

 

PSA manufacturers two different style AR uppers in x39. One requires their proprietary lower that uses AK mags and one that uses a standard AR lower.

Duramags / C-Products Defense are 100% reliable for AR x39 builds. 28-rounders fit in 5.56 NATO mag holders.

There are two key parts to 100% AR x39 reliability. Already mentioned are Duramags. I have found no other mag that works 100%. The other key is the bolt / firing pin. Either you get a bolt specifically machined to deal with the x39 mil-spec sunk primers or you get an extended firing pin. Most BCGs for x39 just do the extended pin because it’s easier and cheaper than the bolt face.

Steel cased ammo is going to be harder on the bolt and the extractor than brass so having those as spares is advisable. AIM x39 melonite bolts are $50.

You can run a DI x39 with 100% reliability. There’s no need for a piston system.

 

Fwiw, I had a bear creek 7.62 upper that went through 2 ejectors in under 200 rounds. Bca replaced both, but after the 2nd one i decided just to sell it.
I had to put an extra power trigger sping to get reliable primer ignition on steel case.
I used c products and asc mags and both were fine in my limited experience. I believe bear creek recommends ASC mags, but the consensus seems to be duramags are superior.

 

Good to know. Two failed ejectors is obviously totally abnormal and I wonder if it could have been a geometry problem with the bolt itself. Especially when you add in the need for the spring.

 

Your life would be easier if you married a stripper instead. ARs and 7.62x39 are just not compatible.

Though, as with a slim fraction of shotgun weddings, it does occasionally work out to the surprise of all involved.

5.45 is an easier match, IMO.

 

Thanks everyone for your comments and feedback!

 

I bought a Bear Creek Arsenal 7.62x39 upper on a lark. Put a few hundred rounds through it. ASC mags.

Been error free so far. Fun. I like the side charging.

 

Thanks for the reply!

Which buffer and spring have you been using with the 7.62x39mm upper assembly?

 

PSA KS-47. I have two of them. (I also have three AKs, but my KS-47s are much more accurate.)

The KS-47 uses AK magazines, which have a menacing appearance.

No problems with steel cased ammo.

I use Magpul and Bulgarian steel AK magazines. No issues.

As always with 7.62x39 ARs, keep a couple of spare extractors on hand and you'll be G-t-G.

If you want 7.62x39 performance, with less potential problems in an AR platform, then I suggest getting a 16-inch .300 BLK upper instead.

 

If you want 7.62x39 performance, with less potential problems in an AR platform, then I suggest getting a 16-inch .300 BLK upper instead.

Been there, done that. With ammo costing 2 - 3x what x39 costs when it’s actually available, the perceived benefits start to cost a whole lot more than a couple extractors — they start to cost a rifle or a decent optic pretty quick.

I’ll consider 300BLK again when a major military adopts it as a standard cartridge. At this point it’s the same as 6.8 SPC and all the other AR platform marketing / specialty cartridges. Covid and riots demonstrated that unless you’ve got 9mm, 5.56, x39, or maybe 7.62 NATO, you’re going to be high and dry until some semblance of normalcy is restored.

 

I suggest avoiding any and all the AR's that use a standard AR15/M16 bolt that's had its face machined larger to accept the larger cartridge base of the 7.62x39 cartridge, and save your coins for a much better option, and that would be for the CMMG Mk47 Mutant series. CMMG did the 5.56x45 to 7.62x39 AR15 conversion CORRECTLY by designing their own enlarged carrier and bolt for a significant increase in strength over the modified 5.56x45 bolt systems.

Just look at the difference between the two bolt faces shown below, paying special attention to the size of the locking lugs and the extractor of each, then ask yourself what you'd rather have...the modified 5.56x45 bolt on the right, or the purpose built and obviously more beefy CMMG 7.62x39 bolt on the left? 'Tis a no brainer for me!

Now look at the increased size of the Mk47 carrier, shown with bolt installed:

Yes, the CMMG system is more expensive than your average 7.62x39 components or a complete rifle from Radical Firearms, etc., but considering the advantages of the CMMG design I'd be hard pressed not to go with their design for an AR whatever chambered in 7.62x39.

If I someday found myself interested in a 7.62x39 AR rifle or pistol I'd do a few things first...give it second and third thoughts, consider the 300BLK option instead, buy the CMMG system, or stick with another platform such as the AKM rifle or pistol - that was designed specifically for the cartridge and not an afterthought that uses hard to find goofy looking mags and machined out/weakened bolts that lead to broken lugs and extractors.

Best wishes with your choice!

 

I suggest avoiding any and all the AR's that use a standard AR15/M16 bolt that's had its face machined larger to accept the larger cartridge base of the 7.62x39 cartridge, and save your coins for a much better option, and that would be for the CMMG Mk47 Mutant series. CMMG did the 5.56x45 to 7.62x39 AR15 conversion CORRECTLY by designing their own enlarged carrier and bolt for a significant increase in strength over the modified 5.56x45 bolt systems.

Just look at the difference between the two bolt faces shown below, paying special attention to the size of the locking lugs and the extractor of each, then ask yourself what you'd rather have...the modified 5.56x45 bolt on the right, or the purpose built and obviously more beefy CMMG 7.62x39 bolt on the left? 'Tis a no brainer for me!

Great consumer marketing on on CNNG part, but is mechanically necessary or make a difference? Does the AR 308 bolt have issues, or need the same level of bolt material?
All these manufacturers making AR7.62x39 prepackaged, need to hopefully doing their engineering research, whether it is DI vs Piston, firing pins, extractors, feed ramps, buffer/spring, magazine style to work.

The big IFs and MAYBEs come when you are putting one together yourself, and picking out the components to make it work.

 

Windham 762x39 has been good for me (I got complete rifle). Previous posts mention mags. The mags can be picky but the Windham supplied one has been fine. I've had others that are good, but don't recall brands.

A previous post mentioning 300BLK is also an option as the cartridges' performances are similar within the 762x39's normal operating range. 300BLK ammo (purchased or reloaded) gives more options. If you go 300BLK and stay in the supersonic realm, AR malfunctions should not be a problem. Start trying to go subsonic and an AR can have feed and lock-back problems.

Of course, 300BLK ammo historically costs more and has not been as available as 762x39. But with Russian supply imports getting crimped by our government, the 300BLK might be equal now and have better availability soon.

 

I own 2 300BO ARs and one 7.62x39. Ammo prices have benched the 300BOs. 7.62x39 will see more range time. Do not care how popular it is. I like it.

Considering adding another. Full disclosure, I bought a lot of 7.62x39 several years ago. A closet full of compatible ammo makes a firearm more attractive (to me).

 

Chill folks, not personal, just presenting the skeptic side.
Something that looks good, may not necessarily be needed - but it sells, and adds to the price. I've not broken any AR 7.62x39 bolts, but I have had several AR7.62x39 uppers, and shot my share of ammo through those (5K rounds easily)

My biggest complaint (weakness of the AR concept) is the mags - THEY SUCK, no matter who makes them, and how much others claim they are fine - they are not. Because of how the ammo stacks-- the straight portion of the upper AR mag feed as they enter the chamber is a choke point, and the mag feeds irregularly. Much better to use the AK curved geometry mag - so the advantage goes to the PSA.
It only takes one weakness in the whole system to take it down - my first suspect would be the mag, not the bolt.

Ultimate (my personal) conclusion: if you are playing around and don't mind spending time and money, then go ahead and try different things - just for fun, like I did. But ultimately you can't beat the factories and the original engineers - use 556 in ARs, and 7.62x39 in AKs. If you want to use 556 in AK, then Galil has done it well, but if you want to use 7.62x39 in AR-- ah hmm, stick to AK or VZ style.

 

Chill folks, not personal, just presenting the skeptic side.
Something that looks good, may not necessarily be needed - but it sells, and adds to the price. I've not broken any AR 7.62x39 bolts, but I have had several AR7.62x39 uppers, and shot my share of ammo through those (5K rounds easily)

My biggest complaint (weakness of the AR concept) is the mags - THEY SUCK, no matter who makes them, and how much others claim they are fine - they are not. Because of how the ammo stacks-- the straight portion of the upper AR mag feed as they enter the chamber is a choke point, and the mag feeds irregularly. Much better to use the AK curved geometry mag - so the advantage goes to the PSA.
It only takes one weakness in the whole system to take it down - my first suspect would be the mag, not the bolt.

Ultimate (my personal) conclusion: if you are playing around and don't mind spending time and money, then go ahead and try different things - just for fun, like I did. But ultimately you can't beat the factories and the original engineers - use 556 in ARs, and 7.62x39 in AKs. If you want to use 556 in AK, then Galil has done it well, but if you want to use 7.62x39 in AR-- ah hmm, stick to AK or VZ style.

I had a bolt shear off two lugs on either side of the extractor and the pieces got lodged between the BCG and the buffer tube. I had to literally beat that gun apart. I would love to have the CMMG Mk 47. I I had it to do over again, I would definitely buy the CMMG.

 

I have heard of the AR 762x39 bolt weakness. I bought an extra bolt (as I do with 556 AR's) but have not had to use it (I don't shoot it that much or magdump). I've not read a lot of reports of this happening more than with other AR caliber bolts. Not saying 762x39 AR bolts don't break more, I just have not run across a lot of those reports.

But that would be another plus for getting 300BLK.

HOWEVER, keep in mind an added potential danger with 300BLK. The only part that needs changing on an AR to shoot 300BLK is the barrel. So there's NO easily observable external indication which rifle caliber upper you are using. Because the 300BLK will load in the same AR mag and will chamber in a 556-barreled upper (I've not personally tried this), there is potential safety danger.

IF you shoot the wrong round in the mismatched rifle, things will go badly. Especially true if you try pushing the 30 caliber 300BLK bullet into a 22 caliber hole.

So if you do go 300BLK, make sure you make it obvious that it is a 300BLK upper. Some suggestions:

• get a BCG that is not colored black. There are a number of coated BCG's available for this.
• mark somewhere outside on upper with silver magic marker or black-contrasting white or gold paint. Put something very visible like a '3' or a dot in a few places likely to be seen: on the top, side, bayonet lug, ejection port cover.
• wrap something heat-resistant (and non-flammable), white-contrasting-colored around the handguard somewhere. I use some of those bright-colored computer cable velcro ties that have not melted or caused problems.
• mark and dedicate AR mags for 300BLK. You can mark these with same colored magic marker or paint on the sides and bottom. You can also buy rubber bands to put around the mags that have the caliber printed on them. However, I would suggest getting a mag dedicated to 300BLK. They have slightly altered inner geometry of the mag to help the fatter 30 caliber bullet feed.
• don't take both 300BLK and 556 ammo out when you go shooting. If you have to take both kinds, then keep physically separate in different containers, including the dedicated, marked mags. And keep only one caliber's container on the line with you while actually shooting. Keep the other caliber physically elsewhere, like in the trunk of a vehicle.

Good luck with your choice.

 

mark and dedicate AR mags for 300BLK. You can mark these with same colored magic marker or paint on the sides and bottom. You can also buy rubber bands to put around the mags that have the caliber printed on them. However, I would suggest getting a mag dedicated to 300BLK. They have slightly altered inner geometry of the mag to help the fatter 30 caliber bullet feed.

I kinda worried about the ammo mixup myself after a random mouthbreathing vanilla gangsta blew up his upper receiver at the local range a couple of years ago.

I started using Lancer mags. The .300BLK mags have the caliber molded into the body, and use tan baseplates. The only things I have to do are: (1) load proper ammo in the proper mag, which I make sure I do myself; and, (2) look at the mag baseplate when loading.

 

Hello,

I have a Bear Creek Arsenal 16" 7.62x39 upper sitting on a Sharp's lower. The lower is a traditional AR-15 (.223/5.56mm). A standard lower parts kit was used in the assembly. The upper was a complete one, so it came with the BCG. It has a standard AR style charging handle (BCA offers a side charging upper as well I believe). I really like this rifle. I put it together just to be able to shoot steel case 7.62 since I had purchased a ton of it when I had an SKS (now a safe queen). It has been completely reliable and a hoot to shoot.

I use Duramags (C-mags) in this rifle. I have a 5 round mag, a couple of 20 round mags, and more than a couple of their 30 round mags. Same as with the rifle, I have had no issues in hundreds of rounds. I have shot Golden Tiger, Tula and some unknown white box (Russian surplus?) ammo. All have been 123 grain weights with about 50% ball vs. hollow-point.

I would buy from BCA again if I was building an AR platform rifle.

 

Put another 100 rounds through my BCA upper/PSA lower this weekend. No issues except it is loud. 8.5" barrel not quiet. Need muffs and plugs.

Really like it. Have a few lowers sitting around. Thinking about buying a 16" version from BCA.

 

The uppers should be on sale right now, and for a while.
You know that 7.62x39 is going to get pricey for a while, right?

 

been watching this thread with interest as I picked up a BCA heavy barreled 18" upper assembly a mouth ago and been waiting on Ohio weather to cooperate for a range outing.

I finally made it to the range Friday, taking the BCA upper mounted on a 17 Design lower assembled with a run of the mill PSA lower parts kit, I also had a recent 5.56 16" build assembled with a Rise Armament Rage drop in trigger.

only had two mags, a ten rounder, a thirty rounder and a hundred rounds of Red Army 122 gr. FMJ, only fired it at 25 yrds, more of a function test and getting the PA 1-6 ACSS scope I mounted on paper and to compare it to the 5.56.

it does have more recoil than the 5.56, by no means unpleasant but noticeable, running it with a standard carbine weigh buffer and spring, ejection was right at 3:30 and about 15-20 feet.

once the scope was dialed in I was getting one hole groups off the bench, again, only at 25 yards so it will need some longer range shooting.

only issue I had was when I switched to the lower with the Rise trigger, dimple primers but failed to fire.

well. so good so far, as the weather gets better I'll get some more trigger time at longer distances and report back, after the last two years of lock down nonsense I'm looking forward to some nice days on the firing line, should be a good summer.

 

I am interested in purchasing a complete AR upper assembly in 7.62x39mm to try out.

Looking for recommendations on which brands to consider. Also, which brand of AR 7.62x39 magazines to buy.

Will steel case ammo function reliably through a DI AR?

Thanks for any suggestions/comments.

I think I'd be more concerned with which Lower using standard AK magazines would work best with whatever upper you chose. The 762x39 is a better choice ballistically because of it's greater versatility than the 300 BLK if you want to use it for hunting and still be able to use subsonic loads with the same basic rifling twist. But if all you're going to do is shoot subsonic ammo, you're better off with a 300 blackout.

 

Tried different combinations with different 7.62 uppers and none of them ran right.

Sold off all the bits and pieces and bought a Maxim Defense in 7.62x39
It has yet to hiccup and it has eaten at least 700 rounds of cheap Russian ball.
Great thing to be able to use the CHEAPEST carbine round available in both my black guns.

Most importantly, when talking about 7.62x39 in an AR chassis...is MAGAZINES
The tapered 7.62x39 case won t feed well in 99% of AR mags.
C-Products DURAMAG is about the only one that you can trust to work 100% of the time.
D&H also seem to work good.

ASC, ProMag, etc...will not feed proper

 

A friend has a 7.62x39mm AR-15 he assembled using a Anderson lower and a Moretti upper assembly. Finally had the chance to get out to the range to try it out.

Seems accurate enough with Wolf steel case ammo, but had a failure to fire rate of 10%. Turns out he had installed one of those RISE140 light triggers; I am assuming this is the source of the light hammer strikes.

Still on the fence about getting a 7.62 AR . . .

 

.....Seems accurate enough with Wolf steel case ammo, but had a failure to fire rate of 10%. Turns out he had installed one of those RISE140 light triggers; I am assuming this is the source of the light hammer strikes......

same here, Design 17 lower BCA 7.62x39 upper, Rise Armament Rave trigger, wolf primers don't like the lighter strike of a drop-in trigger, replaced it with a PSA EPT Fire Control kit from another build, no more FTF.

 

The ALG ACT is an excellent and relatively inexpensive trigger and comes with two springs. If you use the heavier spring, you will not have any issues using any 7.62x39 ammo.

 

To revive this thread, I bought a Bear Creek Arsenal 16 inch complete upper in 7.62x39mm last month. Mounted MagPul folding "iron" sights on it.

Got it out to the range to today. Used an AeroPrecision pistol lower with brace; Wolf poly steel cased 7.62mm M43 ammo and DuraMags.

Fired 80 rounds today without problems. Accuracy seems decent. Next is to mount a red dot.

 

I have my BCA upper on a Sharp's lower. I've had issues with this lower on my 5.56 uppers by PSA, Del-Ton and Aero but on the 7.62 BCA I've never had any problems. I've maybe run 500 rounds of Golden Tiger steel case through it. Maybe 50 of Wolf.