How about Gold Dot short barrel ammo?
https://www.speer-ammo.com/ammuniti...-barrel-personal-protection,gold-dot-short-barrel-personal-protection---rimfire

 

135GR/990fps. Seems like the Saber still has the edge.

Buffalo makes a 125GR load, it's rated at 1225 fps, but that's out of a 2.5" barrel. The snubby will likely knock 100 of that, maybe more. Still seems like the Saber has the edge.

 

Well you are not getting 300fps in one inch of bbl, more like 50, maybe. It really comes down to what you shoot better at speed. I shoot a revo well but shoot just about any semi better. If you want something lighter, go shield 9mm. If you only have 5rds, you better be able to land them all On target in a hurry.
Btw, I get the sleepy quiet town thing. I live in one of the safest cities in the USA, I still jumped through all the hoops for my ccw, which I kalif can be substantial. I live in a nice city but I drive thru the crap holes like LA, Bakersfield, SanBernadino, etc. does t get much better than g26 for weight/size/rd count.

 

Well you are not getting 300fps in one inch of bbl, more like 50, maybe.

" Ballistics by the inch " reports that two of the 125 gr. .357 mag loads that they name in the top chart had muzzle velocity increases in excess of 300 FPS when going from a 2 " barrel to a 3 " bbl. While I take those numbers with a grain of salt somewhat increasing the barrel from 2" to 3 " in a .357 mag will almost certainly increase velocities by substantially more than 50 FPS on average per my own testing. As barrel lengths increase from there the % of increases in velocity will often go down and while it's not unheard of for a 4 " bbl to have the same or even slightly higher velocity than a 6 " bbl. using the same load, the % of increase from a 2" to a 3 " and then again from a 3 " to a 4 " bbl. in a .357 mag is almost always fairy substantial per the results I've attained.

 

I don’t believe anyone ever finished a gun fight and wished they had less ammo....

Shield all the way, would be my choice. To me, you’re giving up too much unless your .357mag has a 4” barrel. But maybe that’s just me.

 

You may find rounds as powerful out of the snubby, but you won't want to shoot them. I'll get back with some measurements of MV for 357 Mag out of a 340 PD so you can at least compare the muzzle energy.
I think 1000 FPS may be a decent estimate for the Golden Sabre out of your shield, giving about 411# muzzle energy. IIRC the Speer Short Barrel average 1026 fps for about 312 # ME, and with a 3-finger grip on the gun, is manageable recoil for follow-up.

 

I'll get back with some measurements of MV for 357 Mag out of a 340 PD so you can at least compare the muzzle energy.

Well, I can't find my 357 chronny notes. But for perspective, I did measure some other 38 loads from the 340PD in the past.
Buffalo Bore 158g 38 +P heavy LSWCHP and Underwood 125+P 125g GDHP make about 300 and 311 ft/lb respectively. That is very close to the Speer 357 135gr SB load, but they are both unpleasant (for me) to shoot and IIRC at least one of them cut my trigger finger knuckle.

 

The Shield isn't exactly a heavy gun. If the .357 weighs a half pound less I can only imagine what a handful it is to shoot.

 

Do we have any civilian shooting incidents where power and volume of rounds decided the results? The Police are offensive and attack. The civilian is Defensive and only defending his self or surroundings.:drillsgt:

 

If you look at police shootings you will see that the majority of those are defensive as well. The only difference is what leads up to the fight.

 

There is no question in my mind. The .45. I prefer more rounds in a carry gun. Either the G21 13 + 1, or the CZ97 10+1. Weight is not an issue, but it's personal preference on that.

 

The last time I chrono'd a 357 out of one of those ultra light J-frames, I used 135 grain, Speer Gold Dot, Short Barrel 357 mag, and had an average velocity of 986 fps. That's 291 ft-lbs. That's weak 9mm territory. Hardly anything to brag about, except for the raw skin on the front of your trigger finger from it hitting the trigger guard during recoil. Only thing I use it for is carrying when I run as the gun only weighs 12 ozs. For daily carry, I'd definitely opt for the 45acp.

 

45 ACP. I say again, 45 ACP. The 45 isn't as dependent on velocity because has greater mass. And a 45 shield is a lot more controllable to shoot accurately than an 11.7 ounce J frame.

And in the stress of a gunfight it's very easy to miss and that's where greater ammo capacity (6+1 vs 5+0) is your friend.

 

Then there is the .45 Super, as long as you proper chamber support.

 

90% of my carry is in my sleepy little town with super low crime rate.

If lethal force is justified against an armed attacker, location is irrelevant to "best" caliber - IMO.
I would want the same ASAP stopping potential in "Sleepy Town" as Atlanta.
I would take the 45 over the 357 Snub.
185 Golden Saber +P averaged 1,019 fps from a 3.6'' barrel in this test:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

 

No, I don't fail at understanding this try as you might to be your usual condescending know it all at every opportunity self. I said right away I took BBTI's numbers " with a grain of salt ". I never said that he'd gain 300 FPS. I said on average a person would gain substantially more than 50 FPS going from a 2" bbl. to a 3 " bbl. in a .357 . I stand by that based on my findings . I would also venture to wager that there would be a lot more shooters who have experimented with this that would agree that " on average " the gain between those two barrels in question would be more than 50 FPS opposed to those that would say that the gain would be 50 FPS or less if total honesty was used.

Wow you need a hug micki? You ate correct, you did not claim that but the OP did & that is what i was disputing. Have dozens of chrono test on various calibers I. Diff guns with diif bbl lengths. I have never seen a 300fps gain or loss in 1" of bbl. focus micki.
Btw, the name calling is unatractive.

 

Wow you need a hug micki? You ate correct, you did not claim that hut the OP did & that is what i was disputing. Have dozens of chrono test on various calibers I. Diff guns with diif bbl lengths. I have never seen a 300fps gain or loss in 1" of bbl. focus micki.
Btw, the name calling is unatractive.

Oh I'm quite focused . Focused enough to see you trying to deflect away from your statement that a .357 mag 2 "barrel only gains 50 FPS or less when adding another inch to it. I wish it was possible to have a friendly wager on the times of that happening vs the times when the 3 " bbl. would gain a lot more than 50 FPS. Shall we focus on that ?
And in your case I wasn't calling you a name when I said the things about you that I did. In your case it was merely an observation of almost 2 months of reading posts where you were in conflict with someone. From what I read I'm not alone in my opinions about you.
Now you want to talk about what's unattractive ?
Your constant belittling people is unattractive . Your constant self horn blowing is unattractive. Your constant " I'm a lot smarter than the rest of you " is unattractive.

 

Two words... Ten Millimeter!!!!

 

At the range, you use ear protection. In a real life shooting, not so much.

So try this little test: one round out of each, no ear protection in a wide open area.

You'll want the .45, for sure. The .357 isn't just loud, it hurts.


Cat

 

Shoot the scandium J frame a bit with full power 357's before you decide to carry it...

Listen to Fred about the ballistics he is correct

 

I found my chrono results for some standard 357 rounds outbof the 340 PD, should be the same as your 360.
Federal personal defense Hydra Shock, 130gr 1174 fps, 398#.
Federal Hi-shok, 158gr, 1046 fps, 384#.
Federal Personal Defense, 125gr, 1122 fps, 349#.
Disclaimer, I only shot one round of each. I'm no glutton for punishment.
These rounds are literally painful out of a sub-12 oz J frame, especially the 158 grain.
While I've not shot your 45 Shield, I figure that the GS 185 is more powerful than any of these rounds and easier to shoot fast. Its pretty much already been said, but I wanted to quantify what these rounds do out of a J-frame 1-7/8 barrel.

 

Shoot the scandium J frame a bit with full power 357's before you decide to carry it...

Listen to Fred about the ballistics he is correct

Shame on you, havent you been paying attention to the experts?:cheers:

 

The round that established the plateau of the .357 Magnum’s legendary status was the 125 grain semi jacketed hollow point as produced by Remington, Winchester, and Federal (with Super Vel blazing the trail.). All three were smoking along in the vicinity of 1450 FPS. I don’t know the what test barrels were used to determine velocity, but the fact that the most common .357 Magnum revolver used by police probably had a four inch barrel. Those were hot rounds coming out of my four inch Model 19. In the old one shot stops course of study in the 1990, the 125 grain magnum was rated at something like 96 percent one shot stops. The 45 ACPS, if I recall, rated mid 80s to 90 percent. Depending on how the numbers are still crunched, that 125 grain .357 Magnum semi jacketed hollow point is still a more than capable defensive round. As I said it generated a lot of recoil when fired from my all-steel four inch Model 19, or a six inch Colt Python, I imagine that the round would be akin to a bare grip frame .500 Magnum when fired from an alloy J-frame. I wouldn’t pretend to know how much muzzle velocity would be lost with a two inch barrel, but would imagine there would be more than adequate punch to thoroughly deflate an issue especially at close ranges.

 

I wouldn’t get hung up solely on velocity. Bullet weight also comes into play, as well as bullet construction / technology. Despite the impressive numbers generated by the 185 Golden Sabres, you might have a more effective platform using a 230g HST, given the extra weight (particularly I. Shorter barrels) and more advanced design. Not that the Golden Sabres are bad, but they’re older technology.

Of course, shot placement is key. The average shooter is likely able to hit faster and more accurately with a Shield, than an airweight J frame.

 

Fred,,, an expert, I'm not,, nor are many others here,,, the most vehement arguments generally come from those with the least experience,, and alot of reading...
I have a lot of experience I'm well read, and take experts opinions with my personal criteria and experience to determine what works, for me... when testing, I sometimes take a dozen different ammo brands,, shoot the same. targets and obstacles,,, then repeat with the most favored brands to verify the initial results... Fred,, you are a knowledgeable man in firearms and ballistics.
I've carried the 2 guns in question,,,i don't carry either any longer... if you have that 12 ounce J frame, and would need to unload the 5 rounds quickly and accurately,, you may not survive a deadly encounter,,, the scandium 357 is brutal and atrophy
occurs befoe it is empty.. also those who delude themselves into believing 5 rounds are 4 too many,, have never been in a gunfight...
Everyone who touts the 45acp as the best, bar none,,, needs to do some comparative shooting,,, same day same materials,,, hard, soft glass, whatever it is you believe you may encounter on a normal day,, and honestly assess the 45acp, versus other common carry calibers..

 

Agree the 135 GD .357 is a good choice if you must carry 1.875" barrel, don't expect a fast followup. An S&W M60 3" is still relatively light, and you will get more velocity and faster followups. I carry both 45 ACP +p and 357, prefer the 45.

 

Everyone who touts the 45acp as the best, bar none,,, needs to do some comparative shooting,,, same day same materials,,, hard, soft glass, whatever it is you believe you may encounter on a normal day,, and honestly assess the 45acp, versus other common carry calibers..

Since I'm not directly involved with LE anymore it's my opinion that barrier penetration is less of a concern for me than it would be for a LEO. Too, as loads got better, bonded loads developed, I've read and heard from LE friends that some loads do quite well in this regard.
Having said that, I still think .45ACP is a great choice for those wno can utilize the advantages it does offer . Call me stubborn and old fashioned. It has served me well.

 

to me, after using the 45 ACP for many thousands of rounds and nearly 2 decades of use and carry,,, it is my belief that the 45ACP has no advantage,, other than availability,,, after all my time with it,, I have actual experience,, not what I've heard, or read,,,

on that I am not attempting to disparage your choices,, just voicing what I believe.. as always, I encourage use of whatever anyone chooses...

sorry.for.not proof reading,,, sometimes.my auto complete/spell.check.creates.phrases that are unintelligible.

 

Going to the range today, time to see how this thing is going to shoot.

 

May

to me, after using the 4t1 CAP for many thousands of rounds and nearly 2 decades of use and carry,,, it is my belief that the 45ACP has no advantage,, other than availability,,, after all my time with it,, I have actual experience,, not what I've heard, or read,,,

on that I am not attempting to disparage your choices,, just voicing what I believe.. as always, I encourage use of whatever anyone chooses...

4t1 Cap ?