"Not exactly", how?

 

Got bored out of my mind when started taking about Colt/FN's,that was enough

 

The history lesson is pretty interesting. Though the 40 gets a bad rap called the S&W because it was a downloaded 10mm performance.

 

Please forgive me if this sounds too knowitallish,
it's what I have seen in over fifty three years of
hunting, reloading, gunsmithing,,

What I have noticed is, many talk about power of
different calibers and killing power and have never
shot any live thing and also don't know much about
the full potential of the different calibers.

They like stating that one caliber is so much better
than another caliber and compare the most powerful
load in one but a weak load in the other.

Some are willfully deceptive, like an article I read in
the 60s that stated the 270 win with a 130gr bullet
would shoot much flatter than the 30-06, they used a
220gr RN in the 30-06.

Something else, with some of the small factories loads,
BB, UW, especially for the 10mm, they are getting more power than most reloading manuals state for their
max loads.

If you compare the 40 and 10mm with hodgdon data,
you will see that they use a five inch barrel on the 10mm
and a four inch barrel on the 40, not a just comparison.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

With their data you can get 1159 fps in a four inch
40 s&w and 1287 fps in the five inch 10mm,
that is only 128 fps difference.
I do like that extra velocity for hunting though.

Also, I see none of the factories loading the 40 s&w to
its full potential, people are not wanting that much
recoil in the much smaller guns I guess.
==================================
This is what you can expect from a full safe load in
the 40 s&w with different barrel lengths, from
hodgdon and some of my guns,

40 s&w,, RP brass
CCI 500
8 gr Longshot
180 XTP HP
1.135 TO 1.140 OAL
3/8 Lee crimp
50 degrees
3900 ft elevation

G27 OEM
1114, 1094, 1098, 1097, 1106,,,,, AVE 1102 FPS

G27 4.06'' th LW barrel, short throat,
1206, 1185, 1191,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,AVE 1194 FPS

4.06'' LW G23 barrel in G27, free bore,
1178, 1182 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,AVE 1180 FPS

G30 with a G29 4.6'' LW Ext
10mm barrel, lots of free bore
or would have been faster.
1198, 1189, 1209, 1202, 1214,,,,AVE 1202 FPS

G20 with 6'' LW 40 conversion barrel,
has free bore too, for loading to
10MM OAL with cast and jacketed bullets,
1249, 1247, 1246, 1224, 1259,,,, AVE 1245 FPS
==================================
At fifty yards in a hunting situation with
the 10mm you would probably be getting less FPS
with a 40 up close in a defense shot.

Here is some factory pull downs and ballistics from
some different handgun cartridges, always note
the different barrel length, it makes a difference.

WARNING WARNING THIS IS NOT LOAD DATA
USE LOAD DATA FROM A NEW MANUAL,

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gex6ItGeWQunVZR9B14mseacyEGoreRRrBEXZavfciM/edit#gid=6

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12cjblt0pDB-csBqvoDoCLQH_SLRlUNLHkBVDxge1O2k/edit#gid=7

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wVUEEK67EJh_udjEp_eeRmqC0bIUS2Ibjp10MXWPMVk/edit#gid=4

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...adsheets/d/1iPqWVkglE2824qW4ed6iSmDdCaERBy_rL4RIQi6bArs/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=3

 

Also, I see none of the factories loading the 40 s&w to
its full potential, people are not wanting that much
recoil in the much smaller guns I guess.

I'm not sure this is the reason. I guess the reason is to prevent exceeding FBI penetration requirements. And since the most of them use the 40 S&W projectiles for 10mm, they need to under power the 10mm so as to not exceed the max penetration requirement.

 

The .400/.401" caliber does go back quite a ways for sure. In terms of performance, many jump to the 10mm thinking it's necessary without realizing that the .40 S&W can realistically do anything the 10mm can. You can use the .40 for anything you would use a 10mm for, whether that's self defense or even hunting, what's more is that it does all the 10mm stuff on a 9mm sized platform. I'm certainly not knocking the 10mm, but I believe that if people knew how very little difference there is between them, maybe it wouldn't be on the receiving end of so much vitriol.

 

The .400/.401" caliber does go back quite a ways for sure. In terms of performance, many jump to the 10mm thinking it's necessary without realizing that the .40 S&W can realistically do anything the 10mm can. You can use the .40 for anything you would use a 10mm for, whether that's self defense or even hunting, what's more is that it does all the 10mm stuff on a 9mm sized platform. I'm certainly not knocking the 10mm, but I believe that if people knew how very little difference there is between them, maybe it wouldn't be on the receiving end of so much vitriol.

For me where the full power 10 shines it heavy bullets going hard. Something a 40 cant do. Much like the argument of 308 as good as 30-06. As you lighten the bullet the calibers get closer together. The heavier/longer bullets benefit by the increased powder space available. Why I would choose a 40 over a 10 as a SD caliber, smaller pistol with sim ballistics & a bit less recoil for it.

 

For me where the full power 10 shines it heavy bullets going hard. Something a 40 cant do. Much like the argument of 308 as good as 30-06. As you lighten the bullet the calibers get closer together. The heavier/longer bullets benefit by the increased powder space available. Why O would choose a 40 over a 10 as a SD caliber, smaller pistol with sim ballistics & a bit less recoil for it.

Have you chrono'd DT 200 gr. HC from a 23 and a 29? I love 10mm but not worth the extra weight, width and capacity between those two. 10mm from a 20 and 40 makes sense but I carry those to pull and shoot hogs with.

The APX Centurion has same barrel length as 29 with a shorter slide and +3 rds. 23 has +.25" longer barrel and same length slide +3 rds.

 

"Not exactly", how?

The 40 holds more powder per mm because the 10x25 seats the bullet deeper than the 10x22. The OAL is closer than case length. It also has a stronger case.

 

The .40 is a sprite cartridge. While I and many others find it fun and great for all types of carry, it's not for everyone. A heavier pistol negates much of the recoil so many seem adamant to parrot even with zero experience. The 9 is fine, the 40 is fatal.

 

The .40 is a sprite cartridge. While I and many others find it fun and great for all types of carry, it's not for everyone. A heavier pistol negates much of the recoil so many seem adamant to parrot even with zero experience.

.40 Glocks aren't heavier than 9mm Glocks, but at least you admit that recoil is worse. And I'm pretty sure the LE and spec ops guys that choose 9mm over other calibers have more than "zero experience".

The 9 is fine, the 40 is fatal.

Sure, whatever man.

 

In terms of performance, many jump to the 10mm thinking it's necessary without realizing that the .40 S&W can realistically do anything the 10mm can. You can use the .40 for anything you would use a 10mm for, whether that's self defense or even hunting, what's more is that it does all the 10mm stuff on a 9mm sized platform. I'm certainly not knocking the 10mm, but I believe that if people knew how very little difference there is between them, maybe it wouldn't be on the receiving end of so much vitriol.

Really depends on who's ammo is being compared. Watery 10 equals stout 40. Stout 10 has 30-50% more ME than stout 40. Here's a glance at the same 200gr HCFN from UW:

• 40: 1,000 fps, 444 ME
• 10: 1,250 fps, 694 ME, a 56% increase in ME.

If that additional ME is needed depends on the task. Whether hunter or hunted, if it has four legs, I'll take 10.

 

With a caveat of the right bullet.

 

For hunting, leave the 40 at home. I'll stick to my G20SF and KKM barrel with 180's or 200's.

 

.40 Glocks aren't heavier than 9mm Glocks, but at least you admit that recoil is worse. And I'm pretty sure the LE and spec ops guys that choose 9mm over other calibers have more than "zero experience".



Sure, whatever man.

Yeah, whatever. Reading comprehension, you lack.

.40 Glocks are heavier than 9mm Glocks btw, cowboy.

 

I've been a 9mm guy forever. I've owned a G17 and G26 for a long time.
But, I bought a surplus G22 Gen4 because...cheap!
After a mag to confirm POA/POI, I was ringing the steel plates rapid fire like I do with the G17, and wondering what the 40 recoil big deal is.
Liked shooting it so much, it's been doing house duty.

 

.40 Glocks aren't heavier than 9mm Glocks, but at least you admit that recoil is worse. And I'm pretty sure the LE and spec ops guys that choose 9mm over other calibers have more than "zero experience".



Sure, whatever man.

i will have to weigh mine again, but I think there is a very tiny weight gain in the g23 vs g19.

 

The 26 and 27 are close. The 19/23, 17/22, 34/35 and 17L/24 differences are significant. As of Gen 4 the RSA's are more heavily sprung in the 40's as well.

29/30 and 20/21 use same RSA's respectively.

 

People hate to admit it, but the .400 in bullet and the .40S&W is pretty perfect for general LE use. Good penetration, good expansion, terminal performance is very good.

With more modern loads I think the 10mm just isn’t necessary. A comparison between any boutique ammo company that loads their stuff hot typically shows velocity difference between .40 and 10mm of only 180-200 FPS up to 180gr bullets. Over 180 the 10mm starts to pull away. For 180 or lighter I don’t think the extra 200 FPS will provide a significant terminal performance increase.


Sent from my iPhone using Glock Talk mobile app

 

People hate to admit it, but the .400 in bullet and the .40S&W is pretty perfect for general LE use. Good penetration, good expansion, terminal performance is very good.

With more modern loads I think the 10mm just isn’t necessary. A comparison between any boutique ammo company that loads their stuff hot typically shows velocity difference between .40 and 10mm of only 180-200 FPS up to 180gr bullets. Over 180 the 10mm starts to pull away. For 180 or lighter I don’t think the extra 200 FPS will provide a significant terminal performance increase.


Sent from my iPhone using Glock Talk mobile app

I think the full 10 is just better enough over a 40 to be valid, especially with bullets it was designed for; 200gr going 1200fps +.

 

I like the 40 especially running with some longshot or 800x. The 40 gets suprisingly good numbers even with heavy bullets using these powders.

For instance, Hodgdon max for a 200g xtp with longshot is 6g @ 1.125" and they claim 954fps from a 4" barrel.

I ran my 220g cast bullets that average .005-.007 longer than the 200 xtp @ 1.150" (more case capacity than the book xtp load) with 6.5g longshot and got an 1162fps average from a 6" kkm barrel in my g24. 180s run over 1300fps average from the same gun not leaning on it too hard. Sure i can load my 10mm's a bit hotter but the 40 is no slouch.

 

HK builds an actual ,40 S&W pistol not a 9mm modified to .40. Gen. 4 Glocks address the .40 as well.

I started hunting at age 5, 50 years ago. All handguns in service calibers are a stopgap measure compared to a rifle for sure but there is a such thing as knock down power if you have ever killed a deer or hog or duck. Placement is more important but when Murphy kicks in and the shot is off, you learn what power is. A .22LR will kill a deer IF you hit it in the head. A slow moving 180 grain .30-30 will literally knock a deer on its azz at 50-75 yards———been there done that numerous times.

 

I think most on GT have never shot anything
except paper, some at only seven yards.

 

What is different in the gen 4 over the gen 3 regarding the .40?

RSA

 

HK builds an actual ,40 S&W pistol not a 9mm modified to .40.

Also the Sig P229 was built around the 40S&W IIRC.

 

I've never been a hater, I have both. Several .40 S&W pistols for SD and 10mm for hunting and SD against big things that bite.

 

Backdoor way to start blabbering about the 40 again
LOL

I will just stick with the 10 and let the 40 guys talk among themselves.