.38 wadcutters cut a clean, full caliber diameter hole in soft tissues just like they do on paper.

800 fps wadcutter penetrates 18" of soft tissues.

 

In a lightweight snubnose that I pocket carry for backup (or otherwise can't/won't carry a larger primary), I carry Federal Gold Medal Match 148gr full wadcutters. The reason is that it is far more controllable and performs much better than round nose ammunition. Is it as effective as a good .357 load? No, but I'll take the controllability considering it cuts a nice hole and reliably penetrates deeply. I'll carry full-house .357 in a medium/large frame revolver with a 4"+ barrel such as a Ruger GP100, which is very controllable and more effective.

 

De Nial - It's not just a river in Egypt!
A quick perusal of Lucky Gunner's gelatin tests validates the more potent .357 magnum load over any .38 Special load. It is what it is - deal with it.
An uber-light revolver pushing a .357 magnum power load is going to KICK and kick HARD. Under non-stress situations the kick is so brutal most people only pull the trigger ONCE before passing the gun along. That is to say, the .357 magnum from an ultralight revolver ain't no joke!

What a .38 special load may or may not do means nothing. Regardless of bullet shape, subsonic speed bullets do NOT cut nice, neat holes in humans. They push in until the skin gives way and they "tear through" producing a simple slit after the wound has closed up behind the slug - same on the exit unless the bullet has expanded and taken out a tiny "plug" of fatty tissue as it zinged off into the distance. All the talk of tearing and "crush zones" is pure fantasy because human body tissue instantly collapses in on itself to maintain homeostasis.

Sadly, modern ballistic thinking leaves out speed - velocity as the number one most important thing when referencing bullet effectiveness.

 

It hits hard out of a 605 that’s for sure. But you’ve got 5 powerful rounds in a very concealable package.

I would agree, there’s no contest, if you can handle the recoil and shoot it accurately.

 

Another reason the LCR327 shines , when compared to a LCR357 …327 recoil seems like a
38 +P , 32 H&R seems like a 38 LWC & a 32 long like almost nothing
357 top 327 bottom

 

Another reason the LCR327 shines , when compared to a LCR357 …327 recoil seems like a
38 +P , 32 H&R seems like a 38 LWC & a 32 long like almost nothing
357 top 327 bottom
View attachment 1191901
View attachment 1191900

Its actually a excellent round I think when I finally get around to a newer snubby this is what I may get.

 

38 special VS 357 mag snub revolver? Whichever is still deficient compared to a Sig 365, Hellcat.
If any doubt, then versus a Glock 27 or 33.

 

Maybe, but the OP/thread is comparing the two.

 

Yeah it makes people look stupid to say things like a 38 from a short barrel is just as good as a 357 from a short barrel, it's not. Of course, some people will say it's better because.... wait for it...

...less recoil.

 

Or “just the same”

 

Well if you're older and have arthritis then the 38 sp with wad cutters(maybe +p ammo). If your younger or have a good grip then .357.

 

I thought about buying a S&W 340 PD or a M&P 340.
After I sobered-up, I realized I could buy TWO Glock G43's or TWO Glock 43x's for that kind of money.

 

I like Paul and his videos. While he tried to eliminate variables, he missed a big one in this video. He used different guns for 38 and 357. And the snub nose SP101 357 comes in at 25oz., that's literally double what most Smith J-frames weigh. Most people aren't carrying 25oz. 357s, and rather opt for the J-frame lightweights. Shoot that same Remington 357 125 grain out of 13oz Smith and let's see how it goes. I can honestly say, the most brutal pistol I have ever shot is an air-weight 357 with Speer 135gr. short barrel 357's in it. And those are not full power 357's. They chrono at 986fps and will make the front of my trigger finger bleed after two cylinders.

I think the "myth" about the 38 vs 357 in snub nose is that most people don't shoot full power 357's out their snub nose because they are brutal. And therefore, a reduced power 357 (986fps) vs. a 38+P (810fps) is a lot closer in velocity than his 400fps spread.

 

I haven’t shot an air weight .357 so I can’t comment on that. I have a 605 (weighs 24 oz) and with a good grip it shoots really well. It’s also very easy to carry, 2 inch barrel. The Critical defense .357 mag I have isn’t the hottest but I wouldn’t call it reduced power, at 125 grains, traveling 1500 fps.

 

How about vs 9mm?

GT member @-JCN- made a very nice presentation on this

LCR9 vs P365

Shooting normal pressure 124gr Gold Dot, velocities were similar. This is similar to MAC testing recently. Both were very shootable. Similar weight and form factor. I tested these against each other because the P365 has a shorter barrel than the G43 MAC tested. The other interesting thing is...

www.glocktalk.com

 

This was a question asked and settled in the 80's, by use of chrono's and some real snubnose wheelies. It was a popular topic for gun magazine writers in the 80's and 90's, now and again.

Each generation that discovers the venerable .38SPL and .357MAG revolver calibers probably needs to rediscover it for themselves, though. Also, with the metallurgical and manufacturing improvements comes some new diminutive snubs, along with some improvements in both propellants and JHP designs ... so, it's still a timely topic for revolver aficionados.

Once S&W patented alloying very small amounts of Scandium into their forged aluminum frames, it gave another twist to things for small and lightweight wheelies that could withstand the stresses of Magnum calibers. Of course, it also allowed the company's engineers to produce Magnum revolvers that exhibited recoil in a manner that exceeded the pain tolerance of many handgunners.

Even though I was an avid Magnum handgunner as a younger man, and then later demonstrated that I could run a Scandium aluminum framed PD or M&P snub fast, controllably and accurately using Magnum loads ... that didn't mean it was fun. Hell, even using only +P loads in my pair of M&P 340's or 642-1's can really start to hammer the distal knuckle of my trigger finger after only 100rds (snapping/rising trigger guard beating on the bottom of the knuckle). If I'm going to run more rounds that that for drills, I like to slip in some standard pressure loads.

Also, nowadays I save the Magnum loads for the M&P 340's for last rounds fired in the day's session, and have reduced it to only being 1 or 2 cylinder loads. (The cost of Magnum ammo, combined with the pain, has made limiting their use appealing in the little pocket mules. )

The sub-2" barrels may still produce some practical velocity benefits when comparing .38SPL and .357MAG, but let's not forget that the formerly popular .357 snubs had barrel lengths of 2.5", 2.75" & 3" ... and they approached the velocities seen in the ubiquitous 4" service barrels of the revolver days. There was a reason they were increasingly popular in the waning days of the service revolver, especially for the plainclothes and off-duty cops.

 

You know, this thread made me think to put my 37DAO J-frame back in the safe, and replace it with one of my M&P 340's. Specifically, my second one, the No-Lock model, which is presently loaded with my second favorite .357MAG load from my duty revolver days, Winchester's 145gr STHP. I was running a few of them, and some 125gr SJHP Magnum loads, through the little 340 during a previous range qual trip. Grabbed a speedstrip loaded with 5rds of the same STHP.

 

I think anyone considering carrying a snub .357 with full power loads should fire it at least once with no hearing protection to see what it will be like if they have to actually use it.

I took my 2.5" bbl S&W Mod19 out of the nightstand years ago because I knew how bad it would be if I ever had to fire it in the house. Blind and deaf after one round.

 

I think anyone considering carrying a snub .357 with full power loads should fire it at least once with no hearing protection to see what it will be like if they have to actually use it.

I took my 2.5" bbl S&W Mod19 out of the nightstand years ago because I knew how bad it would be if I ever had to fire it in the house. Blind and deaf after one round.

We were issued 640s as backups at work. With respect, I wouldn’t recommend anyone knowingly and intentionally shoot one without ear protection. It could damage you permanently. (Wasn’t sure if you were serious or only joking. No offense intended.)

Side note, if the bullet doesn’t work, with a 125 magnum out of a snub you might set him on fire if only a few yards away. 🤣 They have a tendency to tear up cardboard IPSCs as well.

640s aren’t too bad with mags, being steel and all, but those air weights are just unfriendly.

 

A nice compromise is a 640 in .357. A little extra weight, and more power. I always IWB or carry in a parka pocket (winter) so the weight isn’t an issue for me. 125gr-ish .357 Golden Saber and Gold Dot are pretty easy with just a bit more weight. Hot 158gr is still a stiff drink for my wrist though. Those go in a SP-101 3”.

 

I chronographed 38+P and 357 magnum loads out of a Smith model 66 2.5”.
It wasn’t even close; using 125 grain factory JHPs the 357 exceeded the 38 by almost 500FPS. The difference was a bit more out of a 4” Smith model 19. Does that translate to a more effective round in the 357? In the immortal words of Paul Harrel; you be the judge.

In my judgement using 357 improves my chances of winning the fight. The caveat is that I must practice regularly to avoid the pitfalls associated with the flash, blast and recoil.
The good news is that kind of practice makes you a better all-around shooter.

 

If you don't kill them with the bullet, you'll burn them with the flame.🔥🔥🔥

 

I load the Winchester old style 158 gr Hp going over my chrony at 1250 fps. I shoot it out of a SP101 3”. I don’t get the “fly weight I don’t want to know it’s there” mantra. I want a 357 to be a 357!

 

I once thought that way, too. I carried blued and stainless steel medium and large framed revolvers on and off-duty (and I made it work on my own time, comfort be damned).

Now, some decades later, I may still want the caliber capability, but I'm less inclined to tote the weight. Gotta compromise somewhere. Carrying 40+oz grows heavier through the day than 25+oz, but 17+oz is lighter still after the same length of hours.

I spent a lot of time toting full-size .357's over hill and dale in the backwoods, and then discovered the little 101DAO was a lot easier on the hip (and back). After more years I discovered the Scandium alloyed aluminum J's were even easier to carry.

We have a lot of options nowadays, and folks can choose from among them however it suits them ... including if they want more than a single option depending on the situation, time and mood.

 

I’d always go with a .357 chambered snub nose because you can still shoot .38 Special, 38 Special +P and .357 rounds in it. I’m a retired cop after 30 years on the job and always wore a ankle rig back up revolver thinking if I’m on my back for some reason I wouldn’t have to worry about an auto being out of battery from close contact.

 

Love my 605. I know Taurus gets a lot of hate but I think there’s a lot of truth in the rumors that they’ve been improving over the last few years. It’s a nice revolver especially for the price.
280 new on Gunbroker auction.

 

I've been seeing more issues with S&W revolvers more than anything else. Rugers seem to be doing better in the QC department but even with Ruger there seems to be an uptick in lemons in recent years (though not as bad as S&W). Then again that's been my observation with most handgun manufacturers since 2020 barring a few like Glock and H&K. I do love my Ruger revolvers and older S&W's though.

 

I heard the same thing about S&W.
I have a GP100 and a SuperBlackHawk. Built like tanks.

 

Delete

 

When I was lucky enough to be able to study data from SoCal from the 80s, I thought it was interesting that the legendary 1 shot stops with 125gr .357 Mag seemed to always have a few factors in common:
1. The barrels were 4" or less
2. The ammunition used did not utilize flash retardant in the powder
3. It was at dark in constricted areas
4. It was full-bore 125gr Federal or Remington loads and always used in extremely close proximity to the suspect

I have to wonder if the massive blast and flash (and the still-burning powder going into the wound cavity) combined with the other above factors had something to do with the disproportionate effects on the street compared with gel testing.

Nowadays it seems most full-power .357 Mag has flash-retardant in the powder, but I haven't tried shooting a current production Federal or Remington 125gr SJHP going 1450 FPS in a while.

 

Nowadays it seems most full-power .357 Mag has flash-retardant in the powder, but I haven't tried shooting a current production Federal or Remington 125gr SJHP going 1450 FPS in a while.

Just shot some 125 SJHP Rems out of a 4.2 inch GP100 a couple days ago on a LEOSA qual. Same as they ever were, at least it seemed that way to me.

 

I had a Dan Wesson Pistol Pack with the vented heavy barrel. Of course I had to try out all 4 barrels. I got to the 2.5" and ran 6 rounds thru it. Took it off, cleaned and put it back in the Hit Man carrying case, never to see the light of day again.

 

As several have pointed out…If you miss with the j frame .357 just tell the cops to look for the guy stumbling around waiting for his night vision to come back with his shirt still on fire and no eyebrows.

 

While some of these picture are impressive and spectacular a few years ago I went up to our family farm. The wife and I wanted to shoot the .357 in pitch dark and get some feeling of firing a 357 in an inclosed room. So we fired it in a side room of the barn. We was not blinded nor did our ears burst.
And Alliant 300MP makes a very visible fire ball in normal conditions.

 

And Alliant 300MP makes a very visible fire ball in normal conditions.

Yes it does

 

I once shot 6 rounds, indoors in a dark room with my 6" blued Colt Python using 158gr .357 Mag. It was loud, but my ears didn't bleed, and out of that 6" barrel the flash wasn't particularly blinding. In hindsight, doing that was really, really stupid, but I was really, really young and wanted to see if it would impair the ability to shoot.

 

In hindsight, doing that was really, really stupid, but I was really, really young and wanted to see if it would impair the ability to shoot.

Always amazing when we look back at the stupid things we did in our youth.

 

Speaking of hearing loss, I have fired a .38+P (from a snubby) indoors with naked ears and it was not incredibly bad. My assumption is .357 would be significantly worse in that regard. I've also fired .45 ACP inside a car, and that was about the same as the .38 in effect. Not a scientific concensus by any means, but my anecdotal data would suggest that low pressure cartridges are probably easier on the ears.

Whatever, as far as .357 in a small snub, no thanks. The flash and blast aside, recoil makes follow ups slower and harder to maintain accuracy at a given speed. My carry snubbies chambered for .357 carry .38+P, and I see no reason for upcharging. The 23-28 oz steel framed carry revolver and .38+P get along nicely. Even short K frames are best with a hot .38. The magnums go very well with my 4" L frame or 6" Python, and that's fine with me.

 

My carry snubbies chambered for .357 carry .38+P, and I see no reason for upcharging. The 23-28 oz steel framed carry revolver and .38+P get along nicely. Even short K frames are best with a hot .38. The magnums go very well with my 4" L frame or 6" Python, and that's fine with me.

The Underwood 125gn 38 Spl +P is one of my choice for my 3 King Cobra

 

Here's what I'm surprised about. In all of your responses (thank you), no one has mentioned anything about Underwood 38 special plus p Xtreme Defenders or Xtreme Penetrators. The more I research these the more likely I am to consider them as carry rounds in my 357 lightweight snub. Thoughts?

 

Underwood is good ammo in my experience! I would recommend it.
I sometimes carry their black cherry wadcutters.