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Brand New G19.3 no mods or parts, poor cruciform engagement.

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Twan_10

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
I bought a brand new G19 gen 3 a few weeks ago, NOT my first Glock. Have cleaned and lubed, and then dry fired it a few dozen times. Cycled slide about a hundred times, cycled 3 full mags of snap caps - all ejecting at about 3:00 a few feet out -Ok -cool.

Getting this and a couple others around for weekend shooting trip thought it wouldn't hurt to check the engagement of the cruciform kick-up, something in my studying of P80 build safety checks is considered critical, have not built any yet, I hope to.

I have checked this using an orange half plate on two other factory Glocks also with no mods or parts and they seem acceptable -one is at least 80-90% in my estimation, another 100% or more coverage on lug.

I was rather surprised that this one, NEW, un-fired by me, has about 50% coverage/engagement. If I stick a Glock tool in and push down lightly against cruciform (right "leg" that extends to drop safety ramp, still in area ahead of ramp) it releases from the firing pin lug (with trigger reset/fully forward, in battery, no finger on trigger).

From what I understand I am doing this properly and this is a big fail of this test. There is some space between the trigger housing and the cruciform itself, in addition to the "half" coverage. My other Glocks do not seem to have this space(G21 gen4, G44, -love em).

I realize things happen from a quality control standpoint and these are rather unprecedented times, which is why I checked it. Is this as big an issue as I understand it to be? Should I try and shoot it (with only 2 in a mag at a time, at first)? Try and bend the trigger bar/crucifrom in a certain spot? Or just call Glock and try and send it in?

Admittedly, I realize Im not "supposed" to disassemble the slide (installing orange half plate) "tinkering", although Im glad I did. Thanks for any and all thoughts, comments, opinions, advice....
 
#2 · (Edited)
You are committing the ultimate sin of dry stroking the Glock, and playing with it excessively, that your vision and psyche is starting to detect problems where they don't exist.

Go to the range and shoot 10 boxes of good quality ammo before paranoia, and panic causes permanent brain damage.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
cciman said:
You are commuting the ultimate sin of dry stroking the Glock, and playing with it excessively, that your vision and psyche is starting to detect problems where they don't exist.

Go to the range and shoot 10 boxes of good quality ammo before paranoia, and panic causes permanent brain damage.
Click to expand...
I get your point, you made your joke. Is this engagement check invalid? Is it not a good "safety check"? Is this not a recommended test to ensure a safe firearm? Am I doing the check improperly? As I referenced this is not the same as my other two Glocks. Thanks for your humorous opinion funnyman.
 
#4 ·
You're doing the safety check right. If you do it with a mag of dummy rounds, the engagement will probably be a little worse. I'd try a new trigger bar. It's gen 3, so shouldn't be too hard to find.
If that doesn't help, it may need a striker or trigger housing (good to have extra just in case), or consider sending itnto Glock.
 
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#5 ·
Twan_10 said:
I get your point, you made your joke. Is this engagement check invalid? Is it not a good "safety check"? Is this not a recommended test to ensure a safe firearm? Am I doing the check improperly? As I referenced this is not the same as my other two Glocks. Thanks for your humorous opinion funnyman.
Click to expand...
Oh, you're really going to enjoy your time here!
 
#6 · (Edited)
Twan_10 said:
I bought a brand new G19 gen 3 a few weeks ago, NOT my first Glock. Have cleaned and lubed, and then dry fired it a few dozen times. Cycled slide about a hundred times, cycled 3 full mags of snap caps - all ejecting at about 3:00 a few feet out -Ok -cool. Getting this and a couple others around for weekend shooting trip thought it wouldn't hurt to check the engagement of the cruciform kick-up, something in my studying of P80 build safety checks is considered critical, have not built any yet, I hope to. I have checked this using an orange half plate on two other factory Glocks also with no mods or parts and they seem acceptable -one is at least 80-90% in my estimation, another 100% or more coverage on lug. I was rather surprised that this one, NEW, un-fired by me, has about 50% coverage/engagement. If I stick a Glock tool in and push down lightly against cruciform (right "leg" that extends to drop safety ramp, still in area ahead of ramp) it releases from the firing pin lug (with trigger reset/fully forward, in battery, no finger on trigger). From what I understand I am doing this properly and this is a big fail of this test. There is some space between the trigger housing and the cruciform itself, in addition to the "half" coverage. My other Glocks do not seem to have this space(G21 gen4, G44, -love em). I am not a gunsmith, although I am a medically retired Master auto tech and aircraft mechanic, like to think I have technical aptitude that transfers to a degree. I realize things happen from a quality control standpoint and these are rather unprecedented times, which is why I checked it. Is this as big an issue as I understand it to be? Should I try and shoot it (with only 2 in a mag at a time, at first)? Try and bend the trigger bar/crucifrom in a certain spot? Or just call Glock and try and send it in? Admittedly, I realize Im not "supposed" to disassemble the slide (installing orange half plate) "tinkering", although Im glad I did. Thanks for any and all thoughts, comments, opinions, advice....
Click to expand...
Did you try shooting the gun to see if it works? No sense worrying about fixing it if is isn't broke.
 
#7 ·
Minimum engagement should be 2/3rds, if it's less you should replace the trigger bar. The result of too little engagement can be double fires - dangerous because the 2nd shot is unexpected and there's always a risk when a round is going somewhere you didn't plan for it. If you're able to make the gun release the spring while it's on the drop fire safety - you are way over the line.

Typically, the cause is simply tolerance stacking. All individual parts are within spec but on the opposite edges of it, so combined they are out.
 
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Discussion starter · #9 · (Edited)
Thanks all, -I have certainly considered "just shooting it first", and nearly did, likely may still do a bit of live testing yet. Although, 10 boxes does seem like an excessive amount of ammo to expend in an attempt to ignore something that is questionable. Perhaps someone with a moniker like cciman has their motivations invested in peddling ammo, or maybe his is a "canned response" to similarly perceived overreactions to "teething issues".

Regardless, my understanding of this is that it will only become worse as things "loosen up" or "wear in" -as in the engagement could become less rather than more SAFE (heaven forbid if safety was acknowledged to be variable). I have REALLY enjoyed my time here so far reading a ton of useful things for quite some time, some of which included this very topic.

The dismissive sarcasm is not surprising and is rather expected in this day and age of pride filled ignorance, so no big deal. Those with useful input have reinforced my understanding and validated my concern, that this could have a tendency to double fire or potentially be "less safe" than one would expect with a new unit.

I would rather not buy parts to "repair" a brand new machine at my expense right out of the gate, and they are quite limited as I have found, If I have to replace it myself -not a big deal. At least I know this is "a thing" and I am not just "overthinking it". I may shoot it a bit this weekend, if anything interesting occurs ill let y'all know.

I plan to contact support when I get the opportunity, although, I would not be surprised if they void the warranty and disavow all responsibility given this day and age that likewise has a preponderance of corporate cost cutting, limited and overwhelmed quality control, combined with an environment of dismissive denial on top of infallible imagery. Either way, Thanks Again, to all of you for your thoughts and input.
 
#10 ·
Twan_10 said:
Thanks all, -I have certainly considered "just shooting it first", and nearly did, likely may still do a bit of live testing yet. Although, 10 boxes does seem like an excessive amount of ammo to expend in an attempt to ignore something that is questionable. Perhaps someone with a moniker like cciman has their motivations invested in peddling ammo, or maybe his is a "canned response" to similarly perceived overreactions to "teething issues". Regardless, my understanding of this is that it will only become worse as things "loosen up" or "wear in" -as in the engagement could become less rather than more SAFE (heaven forbid if safety was acknowledged to be variable). I have REALLY enjoyed my time here so far reading a ton of useful things for quite some time, some of which included this very topic. The dismissive sarcasm is not surprising and is rather expected in this day and age of pride filled ignorance, so no big deal. Those with useful input have reinforced my understanding and validated my concern, that this could have a tendency to double fire or potentially be "less safe" than one would expect with a new unit. I would rather not buy parts to "repair" a brand new machine at my expense right out of the gate, and they are quite limited as I have found, If I have to replace it myself -not a big deal. At least I know this is "a thing" and I am not just "overthinking it". I may shoot it a bit this weekend, if anything interesting occurs ill let y'all know. I plan to contact support when I get the opportunity, although, I would not be surprised if they void the warranty and disavow all responsibility given this day and age that likewise has a preponderance of corporate cost cutting, limited and overwhelmed quality control, combined with an environment of dismissive denial on top of infallible imagery. Either way, Thanks Again, to all of you for your thoughts and input.
Click to expand...
FWIW - Glock will replace the part at no cost BUT you have to get the gun to Glock. They won't send a part that requires the pins be removed to a non-armorer. That's typically more than the $12 trigger bar unless you are driving distance to Glock or can talk them into sending a shipping label (sometimes they will sometimes they wont). If you are not near Smyrna, GA, there are some alternative options.
1. GSSF outdoor match - Glock sends factory armorers to all of the matches and they will make any repairs at no cost.
2.. Blue label distributor or sometimes dealer. Glock dealers and most ranges will have a Glock armorer on staff, however, quality and what they will do can be hit or miss. The distributors that deal with law enforcement agencies have the best resources. If your anywhere near a GT Distributors location or another LE distributor (check Glock's website) they should be able to take care of you at no cost.

It would be worth an email to Glock with a photo of the engagement and proof of when you purchased if one of the alternative options isn't available to you. They're a good company.

Hope this helps.
 
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Discussion starter · #12 ·
mtstream said:
FWIW - Glock will replace the part at no cost BUT you have to get the gun to Glock. They won't send a part that requires the pins be removed to a non-armorer. That's typically more than the $12 trigger bar unless you are driving distance to Glock or can talk them into sending a shipping label (sometimes they will sometimes they wont). If you are not near Smyrna, GA, there are some alternative options.
1. GSSF outdoor match - Glock sends factory armorers to all of the matches and they will make any repairs at no cost.
2.. Blue label distributor or sometimes dealer. Glock dealers and most ranges will have a Glock armorer on staff, however, quality and what they will do can be hit or miss. The distributors that deal with law enforcement agencies have the best resources. If your anywhere near a GT Distributors location or another LE distributor (check Glock's website) they should be able to take care of you at no cost.

It would be worth an email to Glock with a photo of the engagement and proof of when you purchased if one of the alternative options isn't available to you. They're a good company.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
That makes a lot of sense, thanks for all of this info.
 
#13 ·
10 boxes of ammo is only 500 rounds (you don't have to do it all at once). The only way to know if a gun is mechanically and functionally reliable is to put rounds through it, and get comfortable with it. Shooting a box or 2 at the range, does not tell you much in either direction.
 
Discussion starter · #14 · (Edited)
cciman said:
10 boxes of ammo is only 500 rounds (you don't have to do it all at once). The only way to know if a gun is mechanically and functionally reliable is to put rounds through it, and get comfortable with it. Shooting a box or 2 at the range, does not tell you much in either direction.
Click to expand...
I would generally agree with what you're saying, however it is my understanding that this check is a rather basic confirmation that should ordinarily be within range (specification) before such expenditure.

My thinking is why run through that many rounds only to find the need to make a change/replacement or adjustment and have to start all over again(re-verify). Seems wise to address something considered out of spec before such costly verifications.

If this specifically, is something that potentially improves with use that would be logical, however my understanding is that this will only become worse with use. I could definitely be wrong on that though.

Aside from the strictly technical aspect others have concurred that this is in fact a potential safety issue. Again, thanks for your input.
 
#15 · (Edited)
cciman said:
10 boxes of ammo is only 500 rounds (you don't have to do it all at once). The only way to know if a gun is mechanically and functionally reliable is to put rounds through it, and get comfortable with it. Shooting a box or 2 at the range, does not tell you much in either direction.
Click to expand...
That is true when there is an unknown issue that could be caused by tightness of parts. Most of those issues will disappear in about 250 rounds as the finish wears down.

That’s a completely different concept than inspecting a part and confirming it is outside of acceptable specifications. Trusting what the op has said he observed re: the engagement, he should take action (other than shooting it).
 
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#20 ·
Twan_10 said:
I bought a brand new G19 gen 3 a few weeks ago, NOT my first Glock. Have cleaned and lubed, and then dry fired it a few dozen times. Cycled slide about a hundred times, cycled 3 full mags of snap caps - all ejecting at about 3:00 a few feet out -Ok -cool. Getting this and a couple others around for weekend shooting trip thought it wouldn't hurt to check the engagement of the cruciform kick-up, something in my studying of P80 build safety checks is considered critical, have not built any yet, I hope to. I have checked this using an orange half plate on two other factory Glocks also with no mods or parts and they seem acceptable -one is at least 80-90% in my estimation, another 100% or more coverage on lug. I was rather surprised that this one, NEW, un-fired by me, has about 50% coverage/engagement. If I stick a Glock tool in and push down lightly against cruciform (right "leg" that extends to drop safety ramp, still in area ahead of ramp) it releases from the firing pin lug (with trigger reset/fully forward, in battery, no finger on trigger). From what I understand I am doing this properly and this is a big fail of this test. There is some space between the trigger housing and the cruciform itself, in addition to the "half" coverage. My other Glocks do not seem to have this space(G21 gen4, G44, -love em). I am not a gunsmith, although I am a medically retired Master auto tech and aircraft mechanic, like to think I have technical aptitude that transfers to a degree. I realize things happen from a quality control standpoint and these are rather unprecedented times, which is why I checked it. Is this as big an issue as I understand it to be? Should I try and shoot it (with only 2 in a mag at a time, at first)? Try and bend the trigger bar/crucifrom in a certain spot? Or just call Glock and try and send it in? Admittedly, I realize Im not "supposed" to disassemble the slide (installing orange half plate) "tinkering", although Im glad I did. Thanks for any and all thoughts, comments, opinions, advice....
Click to expand...
I have no recommendations on the issue with your Glock. I've never checked that on any Glock I've owned and don't intend to start now. I will recommend, however, that you consider the use of paragraphs while posting.
 
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