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Mugsie1

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
(damn spell corrector! Title should say night sights VS red dots, but even editing I can't find a way to correct the title, only the body. Frustrating night!)

I've come to the conclusion that night sights aren't next to useless, they are useless. Every tried shooting in very dim lighting? It's not dark enough to illuminate the night sights properly but it's too dim to pick up the front sight. Maybe it's my old eyes and my progressive lenses, but finding the front sight, even though it's a night sight, is impossible for me. I've been practicing indoors dry firing a laser bullet, and my hits are no where near what they should be. The only thing that would work in that scenario is a red dot.

Now, I own a 19.5 Mos and a 365xl, both have cutouts for red dot sights. Does anyone know of a red dot that will fit both of them? The 19.5 has numerous mounting plates to choose from, so I'm thinking I could set one up for house gun and one for CCW, but have the option to change should I want to.

Thoughts ? Ideas?
 
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#2 ·
I use night sights and a red dot on one of my Glocks. I tried Tritium night sights at first but I struggled to find them sometimes. Then I tried the tritiums with a white outline. That made it work for me.
There are times when I see the white first and other conditions when I see the tritium first.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
I am Groot! said:
I use night sights and a red dot on one of my Glocks. I tried Tritium night sights at first but I struggled to find them sometimes. Then I tried the tritiums with a white outline. That made it work for me.
There are times when I see the white first and other conditions when I see the tritium first.
Click to expand...
It may be my eyes, but I have several pistols with night sights on them. Some OEM and some after market, yet have the same problem on all.

I'm thinking of purchasing a red dot that will fit both the XL and the 19.5 but can't decide which or what will fit both.

Stay safe and stay healthy.
 
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#4 · (Edited)
Mugsie1 said:
(damn spell corrector! Title should say night sights VS red dots, but even editing I can't find a way to correct the title, only the body. Frustrating night!)
Click to expand...
I fixed the title for you.

On the subject of your post; have you ever looked at a Trijicon dual-illuminated RMR with the Amber dot? Perhaps that color would work better for you. Plus you can get it in huge sizes which are very fast to pick-up (I have RMRs with a 13MOA dot on several handguns). While that would be too big for most rifle uses, it's fine (and very fast) on a handgun. At pistol distances, the dot is only an inch or less in diameter, and most shooters can't keep all their shots in a group that size so there is no loss of practical accuracy at all.
 
#5 ·
Can't help you much on the red dot model, but I agree with your premise. I have tritium sights on my Hellcat and they are difficult to pick up in low light conditions. The Shield RMSc red dot though is impossible to miss. The bright red dot is right there. I highly encourage giving red dots a try. Some hate them. Some love them. You will not know unless you try. Personally, I love them. If you don't, take it off and your gun is still good as new.
 
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#6 ·
I have red dots on a couple of rifles, and three dot night sights on most of my handguns that will easily take them, and a few rifles too.

I won't have a handgun I use for anything serious that doesnt have night sights. They do work (for me anyway) and in all lighting conditions, not just dark.

They let you have sights when you can't really see the sights to get a sight picture. Even in daylight, against a dark background, you still have sights, where unlit sights just blend with the dark.

I also find the three dots work well and use them more than I do a traditional sight picture out to about 15-20 yards.

I dont have a red dot on my handguns as of now anyway, simply because I dont want to get sucked into that money hole. I know Im going to want them, and I can't just have "one". The cost of night sights is bad enough. When they get the size of the sights and price down, Ill have them.

That said, the red dots on my long guns were a game changer when I first got one, and that hasnt changed. There is no comparison to pretty much anything else.
 
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#7 ·
Well the Sig Romeo Zero will fit the 365.
With the Glock you pretty much have your choice.
I have reports made by Docter Optic, Burris and Vortex. I had a dual illumination Trijicon but did not like it.

I like the red dot set up, it does take some relearning.
 
#8 ·
I clear a night shoot house quicker with a green FO front, plain black rear. Mostly because it's a clean, uncluttered setup, and thinner front blade.

Night sights only really shine in pure darkness. I have one nightstand pistol with just a front night sight. Everything else is competition style sights.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
GWG19 said:
Well the Sig Romeo Zero will fit the 365.
With the Glock you pretty much have your choice.
I have reports made by Docter Optic, Burris and Vortex. I had a dual illumination Trijicon but did not like it.

I like the red dot set up, it does take some relearning.
Click to expand...
Will the Romeo Zero for the 19.5? I guess I need to check the web, cause if it does that may be the answer.
Thanks....
 
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#10 ·
I prefer a front dual illuminated night sight. Fiber optic around the tritium tube. The problem I have with night sights, in most cases, is that you need the light so low that target ID becomes a problem. The dual front sights work really well in all conditions though. The problem I have with red dots in most cases, especially the 6 and 8 MOA dots is flare and again target ID.

I had a S&W M&P that I used as a training pistol for several years. It had basic three dot night sights, a laser, a red dot and a white light. When all was said and done after I had run the drills on over 100 people, from novices to highly skilled competition shooters, to average CCW guys to SWAT officers, the three dot night sights had the worst hits, ID percentage and no one preferred them. When the rear night sights were blacked out things improved. The red dot was next, then the laser was the best. Very little changed when we added white light except blacked out sights passed the Red dot sight to only be bested by white light and a laser.

I still run a front night sight on most of my defense pistols, but I have a white light on the HD pistol. All of my long guns have a white light and a laser in addition to my primary sights. Flare, glare and speed have kept me from putting a RDS on any of my personal defense pistols, but at 53, I can "see" a time where the RDS might be the best for me.

When it comes to sights, everyone is different both in speed, perception, eye condition, etc. There is not a one size fits all, so yes, experimenting with the different systems in full, partial and low light is something I highly suggest. A lot of stuff I thought I knew about shooting in low light was proven wrong when I shot the Crimson Trace Invitational Midnight match. I actually shot all of them. Lights, lasers, thermals, IR, NVGs...we got to shoot it all and overall, it made me a better shooter and a better trainer. I certainly learned you can have too much white light. :)
 
#12 ·
I pretty much just use an FO front and black rear for everything. If there's enough ambient light to see the target, I can also see the FO. I don't like any kind of markings on the rear.

All the match/class/practice dark scenarios I've encountered have been low-light, not no-light. If/when you need to use a light to see the target, you can also see the FO.

As with shooting in daylight, a large part of the process is mechanical index. So shooting in low light is somewhat like shooting really fast/open targets in full light, in that you need to learn to make mechanics primary and vision passive.

Actually, that's the way most practical shooting works, but that's another topic. I think most people who can't "pick up" sights just have poor mechanics and rely too much on vision as a coping mechanism. Same with those who profess epiphany putting a dot on their carry gun.

The main thing that the extreme ends of the speed/accuracy spectrum have in common is that the importance of mechanics overtakes the importance of vision in terms of hit placement. When you really need to get down to business, results come mostly from feel.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Well, I found the holoson 507c will fit both. The problem I have now, is it's Chinese made. I don't want my money going to a country that is waging bio warfare on the world. Same reason all my cars have always been American made, as well as most everything I can purchase if I have the option between chinese and American made products.

Damn, because of principal, I may never own an RDS. ☹
 
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#14 ·
Mugsie1 said:
Well, I found the holoson 507c will fit both. The problem I have now, is it's Chinese made. I don't want my money going to a country that is waging bio warfare on the world. Same reason all my cars have always been American made, as well as most everything I can purchase if I have the option between chinese and American made products.

Damn, because of principal, I may never own an RDS. ☹
Click to expand...
A man of PRINCIPLE can sometimes be lonely
 
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Discussion starter · #15 ·
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#16 ·
sciolist said:
I pretty much just use an FO front and black rear for everything. If there's enough ambient light to see the target, I can also see the FO. I don't like any kind of markings on the rear.

All the match/class/practice dark scenarios I've encountered have been low-light, not no-light. If/when you need to use a light to see the target, you can also see the FO.

As with shooting in daylight, a large part of the process is mechanical index. So shooting in low light is somewhat like shooting really fast/open targets in full light, in that you need to learn to make mechanics primary and vision passive.

Actually, that's the way most practical shooting works, but that's another topic. I think most people who can't "pick up" sights just have poor mechanics and rely too much on vision as a coping mechanism. Same with those who profess epiphany putting a dot on their carry gun.

The main thing that the extreme ends of the speed/accuracy spectrum have in common is that the importance of mechanics overtakes the importance of vision in terms of hit placement. When you really need to get down to business, results come mostly from feel.
Click to expand...
I think you may be on point with "most" or you may be completely off the mark.

I work in Special Weapons and Tactics. Primarily hostage rescue. I shoot thousands of rounds a year. About 1500-2000 a month between 4 systems. The G-17, MP- 5, AR-15 and the Rem 700. Not a lot compared to some, but I'm very proficient.

I have been a firearms instructor for approximately 32 years. I'm on my 18th year with my department. I also had a pretty colorful 23 year military career, so I have a pretty good concept of shooting.

Try engaging a face on a moving target at 3, 5, 7, 15, 25, out to 200m and everywhere in between. There IS a place for enhanced optics. Yes iron sights are the foundation but if innovation scares you, pack a flint lock.

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk
 
#17 ·
Unless you are farsighted, like I am, otherwise just keep your night sights. Less things to maintain and to break. Better spend the money on ammo to practice.
 
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#18 ·
Mugsie1 said:
Will the Romeo Zero for the 19.5? I guess I need to check the web, cause if it does that may be the answer.
Thanks....
Click to expand...
Mugsie1 said:
Well, I found the holoson 507c will fit both. The problem I have now, is it's Chinese made. I don't want my money going to a country that is waging bio warfare on the world. Same reason all my cars have always been American made, as well as most everything I can purchase if I have the option between chinese and American made products.

Damn, because of principal, I may never own an RDS. ☹
Click to expand...
Not quite accurate.
The Holosun 507K will fit both. Same footprint as the RMSc / SMSc and Romeo Zero.

I personally do NOT like polymer housed red dots, they tend to bow a little and not as firmly mounted.

Image


Personally, I would pick a 507T for the G19 or an RMR type 2 and an RMSc for the XL.

The RMSc has a good auto-adjust light sensor, the Romeo Zero and 507K are just manual set.

My personal preference for sights is perfect co-witness sights and red dot. I have had red dots and iron sight come out of alignment in the past through rough handling and use.

Having a perfect co-witness gives me more redundancy and back up in case one system is off.
 
#19 ·
Well I fell for the night sight rage 10+ years ago. What a waste of time and money. If your old maybe a red dot on you HD primary but I think a flash light is better for night HD. I did put High Vis. sights on and had a nice flash light on the night stand. daily carry are standard sights or High vis, sights. I did invest in one under mount flashlight with a built in green laser, I think I'll mount that on the pump 12, or my go to AR carbine.
 
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#20 ·
shupe13 said:
I think you may be on point with "most" or you may be completely off the mark.

I work in Special Weapons and Tactics. Primarily hostage rescue. I shoot thousands of rounds a year. About 1500-2000 a month between 4 systems. The G-17, MP- 5, AR-15 and the Rem 700. Not a lot compared to some, but I'm very proficient.

I have been a firearms instructor for approximately 32 years. I'm on my 18th year with my department. I also had a pretty colorful 23 year military career, so I have a pretty good concept of shooting.

Try engaging a face on a moving target at 3, 5, 7, 15, 25, out to 200m and everywhere in between. There IS a place for enhanced optics. Yes iron sights are the foundation but if innovation scares you, pack a flint lock.

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I'm not saying there's no place for optics.
 
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