[kmglock97]

This is what the Glock manual says about the dingus. It’s not just for drop safety but also to protect against the trigger being subjected to lateral pressure.

 

[MarkCO]

This is what the Glock manual says about the dingus. It’s not just for drop safety but also to protect against the trigger being subjected to lateral pressure.

Strader said that the trigger safety lever was not necessary on a striker fired pistol and they made Glocks hard to shoot. 🙄

While he is now the Director of the SIG Academy, he claims to have been the driving force behind the P320 and P365 when he was the Product Manager.

 

[redrick]

If the plaintiff had to pay the legal cost of the defendant if the court found in favor of the defendant all of these cases would disappear and frivolous lawsuits would not be so common . But I am sure that will never happen because that is what keeps lawyers and judges in business . It’s all about money .

 

[MarkCO]

If the plaintiff had to pay the legal cost of the defendant if the court found in favor of the defendant all of these cases would disappear and frivolous lawsuits would not be so common . But I am sure that will never happen because that is what keeps lawyers and judges in business . It’s all about money .

It happens. I've been the expert on a few cases where my client, the defendant, got all costs and fees, including mine, paid by the plaintiff.

 

[Deputydave]

So, in all the videos with guns going off in holsters, all of the holsters had something inside, just waiting to pull the trigger?

Yes. Just like all the videos of Glocks discharging in the holster. It is the only logical conclusion since both pistols don't discharge without a trigger pull. And it's important to point out that many of those ND incidents occurred in faulty holsters that the holster company warned about.

The "dingus" is better than nothing.

Is it? Then why have Glocks discharged so many times over the last 40 years that the term 'Glock leg' has come into the popular vernaclar? Doesn't seem to work very well in the real world.

And you didn't answer my question about the single actions. Why use their manual safeties?

Well, I am a proponent of manual thumb safeties, particularly on striker-fired pistols.

This is what the Glock manual says about the dingus. It’s not just for drop safety but also to protect against the trigger being subjected to lateral pressure.
View attachment 1374379

Then why have Glocks discharged so many times over the last 40 years that the term 'Glock leg' has come into the popular vernaclar? Doesn't seem to work very well in the real world. So from a realistic perspective, it is a drop safety. Clever marketing however has convinced a few that it is some sort of 'trigger safety' in the sense that it acts like a manual thumb safety or grip safety. It really doesn't. A manual thumb safety would have prevented a plethora of Glock ND's whereas the 'trigger safety' did not. And that's really a shame, and a ding against Glock because they've always made pistols with manual thumb safeties. They just don't sell them outside of special contract runs.

And again, as I and others have mentioned before in other threads, Glock also use to recommend their pistol be carried with an empty chamber.

 

[Jarhead Al]

In other unrelated news. local police officer retired without notice and buys new Bentley....

View attachment 1374283

😉

FIFY😁

 

[Bren]

CASE DISMISSED: POLICE OFFICER ADMITS HIS SIG SAUER P320 PISTOL CANNOT DISCHARGE WITHOUT A TRIGGER PULL

NEWINGTON, NH (March 13, 2025) – SIG SAUER is pleased to announce the United States District Court for the District of Puerto Rico has officially entered an Order dismissing the lawsuit (Berrios v. Sig Sauer) alleging the P320 service weapon of police officer Elvis Ramon Green Berrios (the “Plaintiff”) discharged without the trigger being pulled. Mr. Berrios voluntarily dismissed his action against SIG SAUER admitting in court filed documents that his P320 pistol has no defects and does not discharge without a trigger pull

Elvis Ramone was the Ramones' 4th drummer (actually Clem Burke, from Blondie). I don't know nothing about the Green Berries.

 

[kmglock97]

Then why have Glocks discharged so many times over the last 40 years that the term 'Glock leg' has come into the popular vernaclar? Doesn't seem to work very well in the real world. So from a realistic perspective, it is a drop safety.

So…..you know more than the Glock designers as to the true purpose of the dingus? Nobody said it was would prevent a negligent discharge but only one with lateral pressure - which the sigs wouldn’t.

 

[Cambo]

Well, I am a proponent of manual thumb safeties, particularly on striker-fired pistols.

Then why the always vigorous defense of SIG Sauer? Did you mount the same effort for Glock?

I mean, you should be getting paid for all this.

I love CZ. I've had people (fellow shooters, instructors, gun store employees, people online) trash CZ right to my face. I didn't stand there and defend the company, I simply walked away.

 

[MarkCO]

Then why have Glocks discharged so many times over the last 40 years that the term 'Glock leg' has come into the popular vernaclar?

Where are those videos? Every one I've seen, the finger was on the trigger. Now I've worked a few cases where parts of defective aftermarket triggers hit the holster on the way in.

Glock leg is, interestingly enough, more apt to happen with LEOs as well. 🙄

Glock also use to recommend their pistol be carried with an empty chamber.

Can you point that out in the manual?

 

[2020Iron883]

So…..you know more than the Glock designers as to the true purpose of the dingus? Nobody said it was would prevent a negligent discharge but only one with lateral pressure - which the sigs wouldn’t.

I’ve pushed repeatedly on the side of the trigger on my P320 Compact. Both sides. Hard. With a snap cap in the chamber. And a bunch in the mag.

Nothing happened. Weapon did not release the striker. Gosh.

I’ve had a belly full of this. These armchair YT “like me! like me!” jokers. They’re bogus.

I carry my P320 daily. I’ll return to my Glock if one day I determine I shoot the 19.4 better.

These threads have become boring…

 

[Deputydave]

So…..you know more than the Glock designers as to the true purpose of the dingus?

Since I've taught Glock since 1996 I'm pretty familiar with the purpose of the dingus. It's for making the pistol drop safe. This 'lateral pressure' thing is nice, but apparently doesn't prevent discharges because FOD doesn't seem to touch just the sides of a trigger while completely avoiding the dingus. Since Glock is the poster child of ND's I'd have to conclude that the dingus isn't all that great for stopping them. Does great as a drop safe though.

Nobody said it was would prevent a negligent discharge but only one with lateral pressure - which the sigs wouldn’t.

Again, doesn't seem to be enough of a 'safety' feature to matter in the real world. So why would Sig include it? It's already drop safe.

Then why the always vigorous defense of SIG Sauer?

I've discussed this before, multiple times, in multiple threads. In fact, I discussed it in this thread earlier. Feel free to take a look.

Did you mount the same effort for Glock?

Yes.

Where are those videos?

Well, the one that is at the top of my list is the G43 video. Are you telling me you've never seen that one? It's only been posted about 50 times and had multiple threads discussing it. How'd you miss it?

Every one I've seen, the finger was on the trigger.

Then I guess you haven't seen all of them.

Can you point that out in the manual?

Nope. They changed the verbiage in the later manuals. Since I only have Gen 4 and 5 pistols I don't have the earlier ones like I use to. However, other members with earlier Gens have posted pics of the various pages from their manuals several times. Usually in the 'empty chamber' carry threads.

 

[MaDef]

The "dingus" is better than nothing. It's true of course, about the Glock discharges, but if everyone uses a dingus or a two-piece hinge trigger, why wouldn't SIG? That way, they could say their design was as safe as everyone else's striker system.

With all the ND/AD's attributed to striker fired pistols, it makes me think that hammer fired with manual safety is still the safer path.

On a more serious note, Have any of you armchair armorers considered the chance that due to it's design, a striker fired pistol has a smaller margin of error when it comes to safe handling? (just asking)

 

[MrS&W]

The "dingus" is better than nothing. It's true of course, about the Glock discharges, but if everyone uses a dingus or a two-piece hinge trigger, why wouldn't SIG? That way, they could say their design was as safe as everyone else's striker system.

Everything else is out of the trigger guard until they're ready to fire. That's idiots being who they are, and not an issue with the P320. Oddly enough, no one is complaining about the P365, which is EDC'd more than the P320, and neither has a trigger safety....

Trigger safety or no trigger safety, idiots have been shooting themselves and others with striker-fired pistols since the 80s. Striker-fired pistols are the most "accident/negligence"-prone action. Modern stock and aftermarket carry triggers have been becoming shorter and lighter because modern-day shooters are trigger whores who cry like babies about how bad the trigger is and how they can't hit the broad side of a barn unless they're shooting a 3-5 lb striker trigger with a pull that's as short as possible. They need to use the trigger as a crutch to make up for their lack of skill. So we see more and more negligent discharges with most striker-fired guns, not just the P320.

 

[Deputydave]

With all the ND/AD's attributed to striker fired pistols, it makes me think that hammer fired with manual safety is still the safer path.

I posted a lengthy study a while back, don't recall what thread it was in. The gist was a Federal study of ND's when transitioning from revolver to DAO, DA/SA pistols and also striker-fired pistols. I don't recall the % increase but ND incidents went up dramatically with striker-fired pistols. That really should be expected. A pistol with a 5lb trigger is going to be easier to depress than a pistol with a 8-10lb trigger. That really isn't a revelation, lol. Trigger pull distance is also a factor.

I've said many times that a striker-fired pistol isn't necessarily 'unsafe' but it is 'less safe' than a hammer-fired pistol. Three main reasons (and these are general reasons and there can be exceptions). First, trigger pull weight as discussed above. Second, pull distance. And third, a hammer-fired pistol is equipped with...a hammer. Back in the day it was common practice to place the thumb over the hammer when reholstering the weapon. If anything was depressing the trigger the hammer would have rearward movement. So it was an 'early warning' technique as long as you weren't jamming the pistol back into the holster. A striker-fired pistol doesn't have a hammer of course so there is no external movement to indicate the trigger is being depressed.

So striker-fired pistols are simply inherently less safe than their hammer-fired counterparts. That's just the nature of things. That isn't to imply that striker-fired pistols are 'bad', simply that they need a little more attention to detail. The above reasons are why I prefer a manual thumb safety on my pistols.

 

[MrS&W]

On a more serious note, Have any of you armchair armorers considered the chance that due to it's design, a striker fired pistol has a smaller margin of error when it comes to safe handling? (just asking)

Exactly, and with manufacturers being forced to go with light and shorter triggers to be able to compete and sell their product in a highly competitive striker-fired market, that margin is shrinking even more. The typical striker-fired Glock guy hates any type of safeties on their gun, but desires a trigger as close to a SA 1911 type of pull as possible.

 

[MrS&W]

I posted a lengthy study a while back, don't recall what thread it was in. The gist was a Federal study of ND's when transitioning from revolver to DAO, DA/SA pistols and also striker-fired pistols. I don't recall the % increase but ND incidents went up dramatically with striker-fired pistols. That really should be expected. A pistol with a 5lb trigger is going to be easier to depress than a pistol with a 8-10lb trigger. That really isn't a revelation, lol. Trigger pull distance is also a factor.

I don't even remember hearing about people shooting themselves in the leg or toddlers finding guns and accidentally shooting their sibling or parent before Glocks and striker-fired pistols took the market by storm. I don't recall police officers having so many neglect discharges either.

Buy hey, modern shooters can't handle DA/SA pistols because of the longerand heavier first pull is took complicated and difficult for them to handle. They can't shoot revolvers or DAO pistols because the heavier trigger and/or longer pull is a problem for them. They don't like SAO triggers, because they hate safeties.

 

[walkinguf61]

I don't even remember hearing about people shooting themselves in the leg or toddlers finding guns and accidentally shooting their sibling or parent before Glocks and striker-fired pistols took the market by storm. I don't recall police officers having so many neglect discharges either.

Buy hey, modern shooters can't handle DA/SA pistols because of the longerand heavier first pull is took complicated and difficult for them to handle. They can't shoot revolvers or DAO pistols because the heavier trigger and/or longer pull is a problem for them. They don't like SAO triggers, because they hate safeties.

You didn’t hear about it as much because the media wasn’t as anti gun. The children accidentally shooting someone or themselves has been around since guns were invented. The man who invented the grip safety ( I think it was around 1887) did it because he thought the lack of grip strength in children would prevent them from firing it.
“
During the 1880s, Smith & Wesson co-founder Daniel Baird Wesson was seeking to design and produce a revolver for self defense that would be entirely safe to handle until properly gripped and fired by a long, heavy double-action pull on the trigger. He was particularly motivated by reports of children firing guns accidentally”

The Safety Hammerless revolvers: a brief history...

During the 1880s, Smith & Wesson co-founder Daniel Baird Wesson was seeking to design and produce a revolver for self defense that would be entirely safe to handle until properly gripped and fired by a long, heavy double-action pull on the trigger. He was particularly motivated by reports of...

smith-wessonforum.com

 

[rla73]

I personally can't find any irrefutable evidence Sig is guilty of negligence. Everything I have seen is based off allegations and not hard facts. It's my understanding some juries have found Sig liable but juries often find for a plaintiff due to feeling sorry for them or simply having a bias against a certain company. I just think it's a shame we now live in a society where anything that goes wrong a person's first thoughts are "who can I blame for this and how much money can I make from suing". I also find this brand bashing ridiculous; first it was Taurus and then Kimber and now Sig. Do people not realize all gun manufacturers have produced bad products from time to time and anything man made can fail?

 

[Jesuvuah]

Wake me up when tomorrow's 320 argument starts

I am busy cuddling with my classic sigs and my HK LEMs (although my p365x MS is nipping on the edge of the bed because it wants attention too)