[Mayhem like Me]

People need to realize what was said twice. This is a EDITED video clip. I learned after St Floyd edited video not to 100% decide based on edited clips. Where you are prepared before watching to be upset about. Are there other legit factors? I don’t know what. Was there a legit reason to suspect an ambush? If employee tells you there is one threat, with a knife no reason not to think he might not have a gun, or IED. But that’s part of the job. The wait them out is if you know nobody is being actively hurt, or hurt so time is a factor. They make it sound. but I did not see in EDITED CLIP that he was actively torturing her while they waited.
Facts matter. Were they talking to victim during edited time? Did hostage taker make demands? Was there reason to think further assaults were not likely if they cooled things down?
Things change but decades back it changed to violence before Police arrived did not decide immediate active response if suspect had calmed down. The dead, were dead. As long as injured not in immediate danger. Slowing things down until manpower, a plan was good. Let’s wait for entire footage.

Editing does not change what we saw , failure to act and an agency that swept it under the rug until questions were asked , I look at thousands of hours of police video this was just poor tradecraft .

 

[larry_minn]

There is a reason courts allow both sides to present evidence. One time on a jury after prosecution finished. A couple jurors said on way out. “Can’t we just find this guy guilty”. That’s not how our justice system works.

 

[NAZG26]

You missed "abject failure of leadership".

I thought that was assumed in political based promotions.

 

[NAZG26]

But what if it's not an example of lowered standards for them? What if their standards have been where they are for some years?

I guess the point I was trying to allude to is the politically motivated promotions create the lowered standards due to training and policy from above.

 

[K. Foster]

Talk about a complete failure, from the bottom all the way up!

 

[fastbolt]

I guess the point I was trying to allude to is the politically motivated promotions create the lowered standards due to training and policy from above.

Man, that's been happening here and there since the 90's, and really started to accelerate in the late 2000's.

 

[3fan]

The New Breed
🤦‍♂️

All of us on the squads I was on would've been shouldering each other out of the way as we went down the hall to be the first through the door.

💥💥💥

 

[Sam Spade]

There is a reason courts allow both sides to present evidence. One time on a jury after prosecution finished. A couple jurors said on way out. “Can’t we just find this guy guilty”. That’s not how our justice system works.

First, this isn't a court of law. It's a semi-professional collection of LEO and people with an interest in the profession.

That said, is it your position that the Chief's failure to address this in over a year, his statement that this was unknown to him, and the fact that it's only being addressed when there were leaks to the public somehow subject to "context" or "interpretation"?

 

[BBMW]

Not knowing anything going in, and only seeing this video, I'm guessing that PD has trained it's officers to be risk averse and avoid confrontation as much as possible. Given the state of the legal system and politics, if the perp killed the hostage, other then public embarrassment, there would be no negative consequences for the department. If they shoot the perp, and it isn't considered a good shoot after the fact, the department could be on the hook for millions. So the message that filters down is don't do anything quickly and without direct authorization if at all possible. This is the end result.

 

[larry_minn]

Shows again if you are involved with a criminal event. Say nothing without a lawyer. Once a storyline is suggested. No Officer will ever consider anything else. Even after seeing how wrong they were before.

 

[Jarhead Al]

A couple of thoughts

The initial responder with the accent sounds not only scared but new. And the way the officer told both of them afterwards that they didn't have to wait makes them seem like beta males freshly out of FTO. I could be wrong on that second point.

These guys would have crapped themselves if the had to go down the hall of a single wide trailer.

 

[ruffhunter]

they sound new off fto, unsure, but like they are thinking through what is proper procedure afraid they would do wrong step. however, they should be much farther along and should have had fto extended or not suited for the job

 

[jhovater1961]

Heaven help all involved if they are first on the scene of an active shooter.

 

[Dragoon44]

Heaven help all involved if they are first on the scene of an active shooter.

I got ten says they would wait for lots of back up.

 

[Ten-42]

That offender was a freebie. A gimme. Green light the ventilation process. Total abject failure. Cowardice. The job is dead.

 

[OLY-M4gery]

Longer BWC video

 

[steveksux]

First of all, it's clear the police need to get involved here. Those 2 are first on scene, they need to do something. This is an active stabber situation, right? Same as active shooter only there's only 1 victim. Even better, he's trapped in an enclosed space, can't escape, can only hurt those within arms reach. You engage immediately and stop the threat if he's in the act of stabbing, there's no de-escalation in that case.

Second of all, if they're worried about how tight the space is, whether the restroom or the hallway, there's nothing a third/forth officer can do but make a tight situation worse, right? Just takes up more of the limited space available. If the tight space makes an ambush possible, no matter who opens the door they're gonna be in trouble, no matter how many are cowering in the hallway behind them. Might as well just go with the original 2 in that case also.

Third of all, this is not a common situation. There's no way in hell this story doesn't spread like wildfire through word of mouth in the department. It's really hard to believe the supervisors don't refer this up the ladder for discipline and possible termination. Regardless if it goes through official channels, there's no way word of mouth doesn't make it's way through the ranks and up to the chief. If most of the dept was covering for these guys, the guy that leaked the video passed it along to the chief. I'm pretty confident stating that chief ignored this when it didn't become public knowledge, swept it under the rug, hoped it would never see the light of day. Beggars belief that they just "happened" to find out about it when someone at the dept did the right thing and exposed it to the public, probably out of frustration that nothing was done about it internally.

Fourth of all, I didn't make a mistake not capitalizing "chief", that was intentional.

ETA: After seeing the whole tape, first guy on scene should have taken care of business, and definitely by the time the 2nd guy gets there. Then the other 2 are just about useless too, at least at some point they finally went in. If he's been stabbing her, and is within stabbing distance, it's not a bad idea to just shoot his ass without needing to issue a bunch of drop the knife commands. That's for when he's standing by himself holding a knife. But given how close he is, he'd stab you before you could react even with him at gunpoint, so no reason not to light him up immediately that I can see.

Randy

 

[Sam Spade]

Well, the expanded video reveals even more of the clown show. Watch the time stamps. Now, consider that they were told by witnesses that she'd already had her neck cut. Disgusting display.

And with something like 5% of the entire department there, does the chief really want to stick with his story that he never heard?

 

[Dragoon44]

“Come on baby”

WTF???

 

[Mayhem like Me]

The additional footage only deepens my contempt for the way that agency handled this entire situation .
The chief and the entire coc are incompetent, no one took upon themselves to hot wash this response or look at it objectively , leadership failure at every level.
An agency that size would have been talking about this for weeks I bet you find the audit trail to this incident shows a ton of internal views.