Getting an AR put together and wondering what ammo and barrel twist is best. Leaning towards 1000 rounds of some type of M193 ammo. Please advise.
Best AR twist and ammo (M193) for SHTF?
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WEATHERBY460
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Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a grunt, but I don’t try to hide it… But, I’ll accept the toxicity of tracks and having pride of having been in the only place where you can burn alive and drown at the same time… officers and their damn liberal arts degrees🙄
Yeah, and the notion that earning a bachelor's degree in the modern era somehow makes one "educated" and worthy of special entitlement to lead others is laughable at best. I earned mine after the service and found the entire experience to be a big joke. Worthless commissioned officers were too numerous to count, especially in the Navy. In the Corps, most officers that troops found worthy of respect happened to be formerly enlisted.
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I agree. I have always said that people stocking up on high capacity, short range semi-autos for SHTF are making a HUGE mistake. If the bad guys have the same effective range as you and there are more of them, you aren't going to live very long. The only tactical option that allows an individual or a couple of people to take on a larger group equipped like the military, invading foreign military, etc., is to have the equipment and skills to shoot them from farther away than they can shoot you. When modern soldiers are carrying M4s and AKs, that isn't all that far, but a .308 rifle you can shoot accurately at least at competition distances (600 yards) makes WAY more sense than an AR. And, yes, 5.56 ARs are the normal 600 yard competition rifles - if you can build your shooting skills to that level - I'm thinking a scoped rifle in a bigger caliber is the easiest shortcut.
Of course, if your worry is a natural disaster and looters from the cities, an AR will easily let you outshoot nearly any criminal I've ever heard of.
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Which is why my son turned down scholarships and ROTC and went enlisted in the NG. They still pay for college and he will do 6 years as an E, have a degree and probably be almost done with law school. He wants to be a JAG lawyer, but wanted the E experience and street credit.
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Thanks for the perspective on shooting the AR at 600 yards. Anyone who can hit their mark and knows their DOPE at 100/200 yards and looks up their ballistics can hit at 600.
Won't be able to do that really with 55 grain ammo. Can with 75/77 grain and still fit in the magazine. 80 grain is better but need to be single fed.
Good to have some of these on hand if ever need to discourage bad actors at a longer range
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What kind of optic are you rolling on this gun that is good enough to get to 1000 yards? And still be good at close ranges? Usually a long range gun isn’t so good inside 75 yards. To big and heavy.
I agree man. Mustangs make the world go round when surrounded by idiots that are educated… I’m a few months away from getting mine, I’ve found myself in classes where I have to fake a bias to pass way too many times to consider it fully beneficial.
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I have 3 competition ARs. 3Gun wears a Burris RT6 (1-6) and I shoot it to 600 yards staying under 2 MOA on the clock. It will shoot a 5" 5 shot group at 600 yards. On 1x, it lacks nothing. The second wears a Burris Signature HD 2-10 and the third has a Burris RT15 (3-15). Those two, shorter than about 30 yards on low mag, not as handy. But rare to shoot targets with the carbine inside that range at precision matches. The one with the RT15, I have shot to 1200, which is about the limit for it. 16" Stretch Precision barrel, match triggers, adjustable stocks on all of them. 69 TMKs at 2750 MV. I basically run the same rifle for short range, medium range and long range. Just different optics. The one in the front was my Team Safari rifle with the RT15. Not heavy. My son shot the bolt gun behind it. Sadly, wife got sick, and we only shot 2/3rds of the match this year. Still, not last.
Kid is competing with another from the NG this year in the Sniper Adventure Challenge and Team Safari, same carbine, but a lighter bolt gun.
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1/7 or 1/8
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Nice rifle. It came across as 1 rifle was going from 50-1000 yards. I have a nice MK12 mod 1 that can go pretty deep. I taken it to 600 witb FGMM 69gn.
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For CMP/NRA across the course competition (200/300/600 yards) I / everyone uses a 4.5 x scope. Mine dials down to 1 x. So that gives you close-up to far-away capabilities. It has a circle and cross-hair type of reticle so you can use that at different ranges. Or, you can know your DOPE and with "tactical" turrets (no cover to take off to adjust your elevation and windage knobs) and adjust on the go.
And scopes aren't the magic wand people assume they are. Plenty of people still shoot irons. They don't like to see the over magnification of reticle movement or they just grew up shooting irons and still do it well. That's not so much me, but to illustrate the point, at CMP National I tried my hand at shooting 1,000 yards with my M1A (civilian M14), with irons. I hit the thing 16 out of 20 times. For me, thought I won the Olympics.
Weight? Just an AR with a 20" barrel, no big deal. However, and it sounds counter intuitive, we add weight into the buttstock and inside the handguards. That helps the rifle "settle" and dampens movement, especially helpful when shooting offhand.
Bottom line? If you can shoot a decent group, prone at 100 yards, you can hit black at 600 yards provided you know your DOPE.
And Oh ... As my career WWII Navy Corpsman Dad taught me to say, especially to Marines ... "Thank you for your sacrifices keeping us naive and unknowingly spoiled civilians safe from the the doers of evil"
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My 3Gun rifle has a Green Laser too. I'd put that up against anything from 1 foot to 600 yards on 2 MOA targets. Last major I shot it at, there were about 30 targets from 250 to 550 for the carbine and I went 1 for 1 on them. When I shot the Assault course at Team Safari with targets from 30 to 120 yards, I know I slowed a few tenths on the closer targets even at 3x. But 50-1000, no sweat.
Imagine trying to do that with a standard a2 trigger that scratches and grinds like a mf… not to mention the tension reset every third trigger pull giving crazy inconsistency😂 good luck in that condition, no wonder why most marines can barely hit the silhouette at 500… my last qual I had to shoot with another relays rifle over getting dropped. I literally had the last bit of life in my barrel. I was shooting alright all week, during prequal I couldn’t hit paper… broke her down and looked, literally no rifling in the bore😂I have 3 competition ARs. 3Gun wears a Burris RT6 (1-6) and I shoot it to 600 yards staying under 2 MOA on the clock. It will shoot a 5" 5 shot group at 600 yards. On 1x, it lacks nothing. The second wears a Burris Signature HD 2-10 and the third has a Burris RT15 (3-15). Those two, shorter than about 30 yards on low mag, not as handy. But rare to shoot targets with the carbine inside that range at precision matches. The one with the RT15, I have shot to 1200, which is about the limit for it. 16" Stretch Precision barrel, match triggers, adjustable stocks on all of them. 69 TMKs at 2750 MV. I basically run the same rifle for short range, medium range and long range. Just different optics. The one in the front was my Team Safari rifle with the RT15. Not heavy. My son shot the bolt gun behind it. Sadly, wife got sick, and we only shot 2/3rds of the match this year. Still, not last.
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I have never shot the Marine Qual. But I have shot the Army qual several times with rack firearms. 1986 in ROTC (119/120 overall). Again in 1990, 2005, 2021. It was not bad. When the Marine Shooting Team showed up at their first 3Gun match, it was a mess. We loaned them shotguns and gave them ammo. Their triggers were not bad, but the M9s were junk in the accuracy department. Their M4s were respectable.
I can't imagine trying to shoot a qual with a worn out one though.
Imagine trying to do that with a standard a2 trigger that scratches and grinds like a mf… not to mention the tension reset every third trigger pull giving crazy inconsistency😂 good luck in that condition, no wonder why most marines can barely hit the silhouette at 500… my last qual I had to shoot with another relays rifle over getting dropped. I literally had the last bit of life in my barrel. I was shooting alright all week, during prequal I couldn’t hit paper… broke her down and looked, literally no rifling in the bore😂I have 3 competition ARs. 3Gun wears a Burris RT6 (1-6) and I shoot it to 600 yards staying under 2 MOA on the clock. It will shoot a 5" 5 shot group at 600 yards. On 1x, it lacks nothing. The second wears a Burris Signature HD 2-10 and the third has a Burris RT15 (3-15). Those two, shorter than about 30 yards on low mag, not as handy. But rare to shoot targets with the carbine inside that range at precision matches. The one with the RT15, I have shot to 1200, which is about the limit for it. 16" Stretch Precision barrel, match triggers, adjustable stocks on all of them. 69 TMKs at 2750 MV. I basically run the same rifle for short range, medium range and long range. Just different optics. The one in the front was my Team Safari rifle with the RT15. Not heavy. My son shot the bolt gun behind it. Sadly, wife got sick, and we only shot 2/3rds of the match this year. Still, not last.
oh yeah, it’s a blast 9 of 10 times lol my last pistol qual, my front sight top corner was chipped off… it was very hard to like mentally overcome that barrier 🙄 I kept putting the existing corner in the middle naturally… those things were so old…
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Not a bad plan. But 6 years as a NG E is a big price to pay for some experience largely non-applicable to JAG and a little street cred, IMO.
A better plan would be ROTC, combat arms O, then have the Army pay for law school.
Army funds law school for eligible officers
WASHINGTON -- Is law school in your career plans? The Judge Advocate General's Corps is looking for highly qualified officers from all branches to join the JAG Corps. And the Army is willing to pay the law school tuition, with the help of the Fund.....
www.army.mil
A LLM would be on his own dime, but they're relatively cheap.
I said 1/14 keyholed which is why they went to 1/12 which is what happened. and would happen with a 1/14 and 193
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A couple of years ago I spent some time out in the desert with friends trying to get in touch with the inner precision rifle in me. I had a couple of ARs, and decided that my RRA with a 14.5 heavy profile barrel with 1-9 twist and the factory 2-stage match trigger - pretty much the same platform made famous by a federal 3-letter years ago was what I’d start with until I got a better understanding. I added a Nikon Black 4x16 scope - probably too much at the distances we were shooting. We were shooting from 200 to 500 meters at steel rams, turkeys, and prairie dogs, the latter in two sizes, 4x7 and 3x5. With good coaching from a former Marine scout sniper who initially learned his trade in the late 60s and put it into practice in SE Asia, I was able to consistently knock down the “dogs” at 500M with 40 year old Israeli surplus equivalent of the M193. That same gun grouped that ammo into slightly over one inch groups at 100 yards when I was just starting out and learning all the rifle marksmanship stuff I didn’t learn playing army back in the 80s. With Hornady 55 grain V-Max, my best group was about .70.
I also have an LWRC M6 IC piston gun, 16 inch 1-7 tube. LWRC doesn’t get high marks for precision accuracy and some folks think a piston impedes good precision work, but I’ve gotten about one and a quarter inch groups at 100y with American Eagle 75 grain FMJ. It doesn’t do that great with 55s or 62s, but is still under two with those bullet weights. I use a Burris RT-6. I haven’t ever shot any of the steel case stuff, but friends have reported it’s nothing to write home about in the accuracy department.
If I were to acquire another AR I’d probably try to go with a 1-7 or 1-8 because I want to shoot heavier bullets for precision work. but 1-9 is a good, especially if all you’re going to want to shoot is 55 grain M193. I you want to try heavier bullets, it should work for most loads and you can just go buy a new upper with a faster twist if you need to enhance your long range accuracy. Just make sure whatever you get is chambered for 5.56 or 223 Wylde. .223 only chambers limit you to .223. And consider getting a low power variable optic regardless of the distances. I found that 10x at 500M was the sweet spot for me, but a 1x6 with decent glass such as the Burris will easily give you good target acquisition and identification out to 400y. If you want to shoot farther with an AR, you can buy an upper in 6.5 Grendel or .224 Valkyrie, the latter will take you out to 1k.
I also have an LWRC M6 IC piston gun, 16 inch 1-7 tube. LWRC doesn’t get high marks for precision accuracy and some folks think a piston impedes good precision work, but I’ve gotten about one and a quarter inch groups at 100y with American Eagle 75 grain FMJ. It doesn’t do that great with 55s or 62s, but is still under two with those bullet weights. I use a Burris RT-6. I haven’t ever shot any of the steel case stuff, but friends have reported it’s nothing to write home about in the accuracy department.
If I were to acquire another AR I’d probably try to go with a 1-7 or 1-8 because I want to shoot heavier bullets for precision work. but 1-9 is a good, especially if all you’re going to want to shoot is 55 grain M193. I you want to try heavier bullets, it should work for most loads and you can just go buy a new upper with a faster twist if you need to enhance your long range accuracy. Just make sure whatever you get is chambered for 5.56 or 223 Wylde. .223 only chambers limit you to .223. And consider getting a low power variable optic regardless of the distances. I found that 10x at 500M was the sweet spot for me, but a 1x6 with decent glass such as the Burris will easily give you good target acquisition and identification out to 400y. If you want to shoot farther with an AR, you can buy an upper in 6.5 Grendel or .224 Valkyrie, the latter will take you out to 1k.
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Enjoying these stories, keep em coming
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