[CZ Glock]

In a gen 4 Glock 23, using factory ammo...

Is the danger of Kabooms no more statistically the other guns chambered in .40?

What about Glock 23 gen 4 vs. other Glocks chambered in 9mm? .45acp?

 

[cciman]

No such thing as 0 in real life.

Given that you cannot control the user, nor the ammo- I would safely bet 100% that it will happen again.

 

[Mike-M]

The Glock 40SW kaboom era was almost 30 years ago, when Glock OEM 40SW chambers provided significantly less support above the feed ramp than other calibers or current 40SW chambers, chambers were less tight around the cartridge case, and 40SW cartridge cases were weaker radially near the cartridge head than modern 40SW. A Gen4 G23 (therefore made in 2010 or later) comes long after the improvements above were universal. (All bets are off with handloads ...in ANY pistol. A talented amateur can blow up anything. )

For literally perfect 100-percent cartridge case support in an OEM barrel, only a 357SIG barrel provides that. It's made possible by the bottleneck cartridge. Install an OEM G32 barrel both for that advantage and for a caliber with superior ballistics.

 

[Toocool45]

Ive had 2 squib loads, with factory ammo in my day. One Colt gold cup 45ACP. Twenty years ago. The other Gen3 Glock 19 a couple months ago. Never say never. But from what ive read it was years ago like Mike M has commented in the previous post. And was caused by lead bullets. Made by handloading ammo.

 

[boilergonzo]

In a gen 4 Glock 23, using factory ammo...

Is the danger of Kabooms no more statistically the other guns chambered in .40?

What about Glock 23 gen 4 vs. other Glocks chambered in 9mm? .45acp?

Older Glock .40S&W did have less chamber support than both other platforms and more current Glock offerings.

While there was "more" risk, I would own and shoot an older Glock without worry if using factory ammo. But it clearly has an added risk compared to the already minimal risk, but not sufficient to cause police departments to panic.

We may have more information if the Glock class action suit proceeds, as it may provide more public information. For those that have the impacted guns, the lawsuit in Arizona would include you (I have guns included, but don't choose to participate in cases like this... if I felt it were real and negligent yes, but this is frivolous).

https://www.classaction.org/news/gl...n-lawsuit-over-alleged-unsupported-chamber-defect-in-certain-semi-auto-handguns

You can read the suit for added info.

Melian, et al -vs- Glock

The suit includes current Gen4 guns, so the filers of this complaint are insisting it is still not safe (I am not saying I concur, just stating this is the lawsuit!).

Impacted Guns: 22; 22 Gen 4; 23; 23 Gen 4; 24; 27; 27 Gen 4; 35; 35 Gen 4 MOS; 22 cut; 22 P; 23 cut; 23 P; 21 Gen 4; 21 SF; 30 Gen 4; 30s; 30 SF; 36; 41 Gen 4; 41 Gen 4 MOS; 37; 38; 39; 20 Gen 4; 20 SF; 29 Gen 4; 29 SF; and 40 Gen 4 MOS.

"All of the Class Gunscontain at least one defect that renders the pistols unreasonably dangerous and unfit for their intended use.Each gun contains a feed ramp that is too long and goes into the chamber causing alack of chamber support for the round/casing which causes the force of a fired round to exert unreasonable pressures upon the round/casing in the 6 o’clock position (the “Unsupported Chamber Defect”or “Defect”). This defect creates a “blow out”or a “kaboom”which is a dangerous situation which causes the round/casing to separate and dislodge a piece of the casing at the 6 o’clock position.Upon information and belief, and based on reasonable investigation, these defects will repeatedly and verifiably manifest in the Class Guns."


Lawsuits have people and lawyers looking for entities with money to sue, so the fact a lawsuit was filed demonstrates nothing other than someone wants something. We shall see if it proceeds and if data is provided beyond what is in the suit. Even if something horribly damning were involved (which I don't believe), Glock would simply pay the Class rather than have information like that become public, so this may not answer your questions, but does provide a counterpoint to my position that it is safe (no guns are 100% safe, and the degree of "unsafeness" of this unsupported chamber isn't enough for me to deem it unsafe, but what do I know?!?).

 

[ViperR]

Forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong (sometimes I am), but I thought the early .40 KB's were due to the bullet being pushed in the brass ever so slightly that it elevated the pressures to a dangerous level when chambered & upon firing. Not only to Glocks, but other pistol mfgs, as well.
The .40 was designed because the FBI couldn't handle the 10mm's when they wanted something more robust than the 9mm and a shorter & milder round was developed from the 10mm (the .40).
Maybe more of a stronger taper crimp was needed and implemented. This was when the .40 was brand new to the scene.

 

[ViperR]

And an old funny meme I just found........

 

[Rocky7]

Thanks for the thread and reminder......I guess Perfection and its definition will be tested, I will read with interest.

 

[MajorD]

Ive had 2 squib loads, with factory ammo in my day. One Colt gold cup 45ACP. Twenty years ago. The other Gen3 Glock 19 a couple months ago. Never say never. But from what ive read it was years ago like Mike M has commented in the previous post. And was caused by lead bullets. Made by handloading ammo.

A properly prepared handload regardless of bullet composition will be fine. Go hot rodding or careless then the games begin. It is NOT about lead bullets NOR handloading in general but rather doing it wrong where the problem lies

 

[Railsplitter]

For literally perfect 100-percent cartridge case support in an OEM barrel, only a 357SIG barrel provides that. It's made possible by the bottleneck cartridge. Install an OEM G32 barrel both for that advantage and for a caliber with superior ballistics.

And because the 357 Sig feeds into a .40 breech it feeds just as reliably into after market barrels which have tighter chambers than Glock barrels.

 

[CanyonMan]

^^^^^^^ THIS ! What Major D said...

I have loaded for 40 a very long time, and even pushed the envelope plenty enough, BUT, NOT enough to be stupid. I have never had a kaboom in it all. I have, however, blown a G20 sky high, and it was bad enough, it was like a small grenade (sorta), and that was with WW Silvertip "factory ammo..." Many moons ago, I posted that pic on GT, and it went viral all over the internet! HA. Folks claiming it was theirs, or they "knew the guy who.." HA! We called it ..."T-REX." It was B_A_D!

WW, did buy me a brand new G20, hats off to them, but I sold it years later as I was getting tired of 10mm.

Stuff can happen, even with Factory fodder.... But, I do agree here with, MajorD's post above, that, IF, you are very careful, and inspect everything, (i do twice) a man should be fine! Yes, anything can go south, but most of it does because of "stupid..."




CanyonMan
:horse:

 

[capcap]

The Glock 40SW kaboom era was almost 30 years ago, when Glock OEM 40SW chambers provided significantly less support above the feed ramp than other calibers or current 40SW chambers, chambers were less tight around the cartridge case, and 40SW cartridge cases were weaker radially near the cartridge head than modern 40SW. A Gen4 G23 (therefore made in 2010 or later) comes long after the improvements above were universal. (All bets are off with handloads ...in ANY pistol. A talented amateur can blow up anything. )

For literally perfect 100-percent cartridge case support in an OEM barrel, only a 357SIG barrel provides that. It's made possible by the bottleneck cartridge. Install an OEM G32 barrel both for that advantage and for a caliber with superior ballistics.

 

[SmokelessPowder]

I shot my gen3 23 this morning and I expect it to kaboom sometime in October.

 

[Railsplitter]

Stuff can happen, even with Factory fodder.... But, I do agree here with, MajorD's post above, that, IF, you are very careful, and inspect everything, (i do twice) a man should be fine! Yes, anything can go south, but most of it does because of "stupid..."

This is true for all calibers.

 

[nikerret]

Everything is possible with improper reloading.

 

[Rocky7]

Well again thanks for the info. The Class action suit suggests Glock cannot safely manufacturer calibers other than .380, 9mm and .357 sig.

Unfortunately not only are reloaders like myself human who make mistakes, so are manufacturers of ammo. 50 years of reloading and I have yet to rupture a case or blow up a gun.....not so with ammo loaded by a manufacturer.

if you shoot enough your odds go up exponentially in a negative result.


Eliminating models and ammo that have had issues potentially dismisses every model and manufacturer for further consideration. Good Luck with continued Karma in the hobby. Myself I’ll pursue the 9mm in Glocks, and in my Ruger .44 mag.

 

[ViperR]

View attachment 743838

Oh yeah, now I remember that pic from way back. Just not enough covering/support in the feed ramp area. Cases blew out at that fine line of support where the thick solid brass meets the thin walls of the cases.
My friend has a Gen1 in .40, so I should have him check his barrel. He rarely shot it since day one, but it should be looked into.
Thanks for that picture!!

 

[wehrewülf]

A properly prepared handload regardless of bullet composition will be fine. Go hot rodding or careless then the games begin. It is NOT about lead bullets NOR handloading in general but rather doing it wrong where the problem lies

FALSE.
Polygonally rifled barrels will capture lead residue significantly more than land/groove rifling. That lead build up creates a sealed overpressure environment. Couple that with inadequate case support, and you get case separation resulting in the "ka-boom". This is a known thing, and why non-jacketed, lead projectiles should not be used with polygonally rifled barrels. Specifically, Glock barrels.
A case detonation can happen with any out of spec ammo, in any gun. Some models fare better than others in that occurance, but the vast majority of reported Glock Ka-booms have been .40/10mm using lead projectiles repeatedly through a barrel that has not been cleaned, and de-leaded.

 

[Jason D]

FALSE.
Polygonally rifled barrels will capture lead residue significantly more than land/groove rifling. That lead build up creates a sealed overpressure environment. Couple that with inadequate case support, and you get case separation resulting in the "ka-boom". This is a known thing, and why non-jacketed, lead projectiles should not be used with polygonally rifled barrels. Specifically, Glock barrels.
A case detonation can happen with any out of spec ammo, in any gun. Some models fare better than others in that occurrence, but the vast majority of reported Glock Ka-booms have been .40/10mm using lead projectiles repeatedly through a barrel that has not been cleaned, and de-leaded.

The problem with that, is that I have fired nothing but lead in most of my Glocks, and have for 30 years without any noticeable lead build up.
That said, I have never fired trash lead bullets either and always kept a gun clean.

 

[cciman]

Never underestimate the ability of humans to redirect causal relationships to things away from themselves, and deflect blame to everything else but themselves.