[dla]

I have been wanting some soft point ammo for my ARs for HD -- but refuse to pay $1 a round -

I saw this at Academy Sports - $55 for 150 rounds + I had a $20 off if you spend $100.

Academy has free online shipping over $49 - so even with sales tax it is costing me under $.33 a round - or $6.50 for a "20 round box" -

If you know of a better deal on a soft point with a bullet heavier than 55 grains please post it.

https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/ho...5-nato-62-grain-spire-point-rifle-ammunition-117625602#repChildCatSku=117625611

I figure I will test it out -

Hornady bullets manufactured at the Lake City plant should be a good combo - not super premium - but quality at a great price -

Passing on the deal - I got the $20 off thing in the mail - because I have an online account.

Anyone have any experience with this ammo?

I've shot a lot of the 55gr fodder - good stuff. I'd definitely give their 62gr stuff a try - I don't pay any attention to 3rd hand horror stories.

 

[Z71bill]

I thought the - discoloration / tarnish - whatever you want to call it - on 5.56x45 brass was a normal thing - because they heat treat or heat test or something - the brass before loading it -

Is this a feature or a bug?

 

[Z71bill]

Gold Dot LE Soft Points

$1.05 a round is the best I can find -

Not sure my life is worth the premium.

:animlol:

 

[nikerret]

I’ve shot thousands of Lake City rounds. Never a problem. I can’t comment on Frontier, but the Federal bulk that comes out if Lake City has always been great, for me, and everyone I know to shoot it. LC sourced ammunition is the most common I see at LE training.

 

[papershoot]

$1.05 a round is the best I can find -

Not sure my life is worth the premium.

:animlol:

I put some Gold Dot back from these guys.
https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/ammunition/223-5-56?sort_by=manual
Some Fusion
https://carolinamunitions.com/feder...r1-fusion-msr-223-remington-5-56-nato-62-gr-fusion-200-rounds.html?asaid=as0004
and some Power point
https://www.officerstore.com/store/product.aspx/productid/37697
For $1+ per round, I would go with something like this.
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...premium-trophy-copper-223-remington-polymer-tip-bt-55-grain-20-rounds?a=2206233

 

[Z71bill]

Well since I have not found the right .223 SD load - I may switch things up and use my KS47 from Palmetto State Armory as my HD rifle instead of an AR. Although I am only using Pmags with it now (the steel mags were not 100% reliable)

I was looking over my ammo inventory and discovered 1,000 rounds of 7.62x39 Barnaul 125 grain soft point, purchased in 2008 - that I had sort of forgotten about. :fred:

Here is a video of a gel test on the 125 GR Barnaul SP I found - damn that slow motion shot into the gel looks wicked. Go to about 55 seconds to see it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3-ot0PBT-E

 

[246203]

Well since I have not found the right .223 SD load - I may switch things up and use my KS47 from Palmetto State Armory as my HD rifle instead of an AR. Although I am only using Pmags with it now (the steel mags were not 100% reliable)

I was looking over my ammo inventory and discovered 1,000 rounds of 7.62x39 Barnaul 125 grain soft point, purchased in 2008 - that I had sort of forgotten about. :fred:

Here is a video of a gel test on the 125 GR Barnaul SP I found - damn that slow motion shot into the gel looks wicked. Go to about 55 seconds to see it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3-ot0PBT-E

If you can't find the right self defense load for .223, you didn't look.

 

[Z71bill]

If you can't find the right self defense load for .223, you didn't look.

Many choices at a price of $1+ a round -

My goal (what I am calling "the right" cartridge) is to find something that works reliably in my gun, expands and maybe costs $.40 --

I will want to burn 300 rounds just to test it out - so not really wanting to spend $350 on it.

Then I will shoot a few mags - a few times a year - just like I try and do with all my SD rounds.

I know some guys buy a box of 20 rounds - shoot 4 to test in their G19 - put 15 in the mag one in the chamber and carry it for years and years. They don't care how much about the cost per round -

I feel better about things when I shoot the round a lot up front - to test function - then shoot it a few times a year.

I may be a cheap bastard - but this is what I do -

I don't think the difference between a $.40 round and a $1.25 round - at home defense ranges out of an AR or AK is going to be that big of a deal. I doubt I will ever shoot someone from 200 yards - or 100 yards - or 50 yards --

Right now I am using Wolf Gold and Federal American Eagle 55 grain FMJ - heck that would get the job done - I am just a little concerned about over over penetration.

 

[Flikster]

Well if you're willing to stake everything on nearly 12 year old Barnaul in a PSA AR47, then Wolf and Barnaul both make .223 62gr soft point loads that can be found for $220/case.

 

[246203]

Many choices at a price of $1+ a round -

My goal (what I am calling "the right" cartridge) is to find something that works reliably in my gun, expands and maybe costs $.40 --

I will want to burn 300 rounds just to test it out - so not really wanting to spend $350 on it.

Then I will shoot a few mags - a few times a year - just like I try and do with all my SD rounds.

I know some guys buy a box of 20 rounds - shoot 4 to test in their G19 - put 15 in the mag one in the chamber and carry it for years and years. They don't care how much about the cost per round -

I feel better about things when I shoot the round a lot up front - to test function - then shoot it a few times a year.

I may be a cheap bastard - but this is what I do -

I don't think the difference between a $.40 round and a $1.25 round - at home defense ranges out of an AR or AK is going to be that big of a deal. I doubt I will ever shoot someone from 200 yards - or 100 yards - or 50 yards --

Right now I am using Wolf Gold and Federal American Eagle 55 grain FMJ - heck that would get the job done - I am just a little concerned about over over penetration.

That is all well and good and certainly prudent behavior. My issue stems from you saying it can't be found. The .223 has got to be the most thoroughly studied rifle ammo on the planet and equally as abundant.

I don't understand why you're hung up on soft points for HD/SD and greater than 55 grain. But based on your criteria, here you go. Slightly higher than your .40 goal but pretty close:

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/col...s/ammunition/products/223-rem-64gr-speer-duty-rifle-gold-dot-soft-point-cs24450

They also stock 75 grain for the same price.

I prefer heavy for caliber for my handguns. On my 5.56 chambered rifles, I prefer the lighter bullets. My go to is the Black Hills 50 grain TSX Optimized. Does horrible things to flesh and there is no risk of over-penetration. But that is true 5.56 and the price will make you faint.

 

[cowboy1964]

Gold Dot LE Soft Points

Yep, one of the best for the .223. Can be had for 60-65 cents per round.

 

[cowboy1964]

That is all well and good and certainly prudent behavior. My issue stems from you saying it can't be found. The .223 has got to be the most thoroughly studied rifle ammo on the planet and equally as abundant.

I don't understand why you're hung up on soft points for HD/SD and greater than 55 grain. But based on your criteria, here you go. Slightly higher than your .40 goal but pretty close:

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/col...s/ammunition/products/223-rem-64gr-speer-duty-rifle-gold-dot-soft-point-cs24450

They also stock 75 grain for the same price.

I prefer heavy for caliber for my handguns. On my 5.56 chambered rifles, I prefer the lighter bullets. My go to is the Black Hills 50 grain TSX Optimized. Does horrible things to flesh and there is no risk of over-penetration. But that is true 5.56 and the price will make you faint.

Heavier JSPs are at the top of the heap when it comes to defensive loads and come at a reasonable price.

Not sure why you think the TSX is going to be safer re: over penetration when it does about the same performance in gel as say the Gold Dot. We're not talking about hunting calibers here, it's a freaking 5.56/.223. Virtually any round you choose is going to be safer then your average handgun round.

Black Hills: Penetration: 15.5"Retained weight: 49.8gr

In fact in this guy's tests the TSX passed through a 16" gel block and penetrated the table at an angle and in his dry wall tests it penetrated more than any other round he's tested.

At about 2.5x the price of Gold Dot I don't think I'll be switching.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykNOr3aAous

 

[VoodooMountain]

Many choices at a price of $1+ a round -

My goal (what I am calling "the right" cartridge) is to find something that works reliably in my gun, expands and maybe costs $.40 --

I will want to burn 300 rounds just to test it out - so not really wanting to spend $350 on it.

Then I will shoot a few mags - a few times a year - just like I try and do with all my SD rounds.

I know some guys buy a box of 20 rounds - shoot 4 to test in their G19 - put 15 in the mag one in the chamber and carry it for years and years. They don't care how much about the cost per round -

I feel better about things when I shoot the round a lot up front - to test function - then shoot it a few times a year.

I may be a cheap bastard - but this is what I do -

I don't think the difference between a $.40 round and a $1.25 round - at home defense ranges out of an AR or AK is going to be that big of a deal. I doubt I will ever shoot someone from 200 yards - or 100 yards - or 50 yards --

Right now I am using Wolf Gold and Federal American Eagle 55 grain FMJ - heck that would get the job done - I am just a little concerned about over over penetration.

Fiocchi 50 gr v max is about that price.
Geco 55 is supposed to frag from what I've heard.

 

[nitesit(+ an e)]

@Z71bill

Have you checked out Black Hills 60-gr PSP Ammunition? Even their reman stuff is better than almost anything else.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002005383?pid=662754

There may be cheaper sources than Midway.

Brownell's has a $10 coupon for signing up for their newsletter and this ammo before discount is $0.61 per round)

https://www.brownells.com/ammunitio...2.aspx?avs|Special-Filters_1=In+Stock&avs|Manufacturer_1=BLACK+HILLS+AMMUNITION

 

[cowboy1964]

http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/self_defense_ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/223 Barrier Rounds.htm

TSX 50gr:

Gold Dot 64gr:

 

[246203]

Heavier JSPs are at the top of the heap when it comes to defensive loads and come at a reasonable price.

Not sure why you think the TSX is going to be safer re: over penetration when it does about the same performance in gel as say the Gold Dot. We're not talking about hunting calibers here, it's a freaking 5.56/.223. Virtually any round you choose is going to be safer then your average handgun round.

Black Hills: Penetration: 15.5"Retained weight: 49.8gr

In fact in this guy's tests the TSX passed through a 16" gel block and penetrated the table at an angle and in his dry wall tests it penetrated more than any other round he's tested.

At about 2.5x the price of Gold Dot I don't think I'll be switching.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykNOr3aAous

Who said anything about safer? Shooting bullets is inherently dangerous.

I'm not judging anyone on their ammunition choices but any round can and will over penetrate. Misses are even a greater concern.

I hold exactly zero value on some nobody shooting bullets in gel and their opinion of their results. I have shot everything from skunks, groundhogs, boar, and deer with the 50 grain Barnes loaded by Black Hills and I can tell you one thing with complete surety, that round is devastating on target.

I also acknowledged that the loading is too rich for most people.

 

[nitesit(+ an e)]

Yeah. The Barnes TSX/TAC-X is a VERY effective bullet.

It's in my duty AR15.

 

[Z71bill]

@Z71bill

Have you checked out Black Hills 60-gr PSP Ammunition? Even their reman stuff is better than almost anything else.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002005383?pid=662754

There may be cheaper sources than Midway.

Brownell's has a $10 coupon for signing up for their newsletter and this ammo before discount is $0.61 per round)

https://www.brownells.com/ammunition/rifle-ammo/remanufactured-ammo-223-remington-60gr-soft-point-prod103302.aspx?avs|Special-Filters_1=In+Stock&avs|Manufacturer_1=BLACK+HILLS+AMMUNITION

Yes I just saw this yesterday - I have some BH in 69 grain and 74 grain -

I use to use BH 115 & 124 GR +P as my 9MM SD round.

I was born in South Dakota and that is the reason I started buying from them.


Brownells runs some pretty good sales from time to time - spend $XXX and get $XX off with free shipping. I was thinking test a bunch of the reloads - but spring for new stuff to use as the SD round.

 

[army_eod]

XM 193 works great for SD. Ever seen anybody hit with it?

 

[pblanc]

I thought the - discoloration / tarnish - whatever you want to call it - on 5.56x45 brass was a normal thing - because they heat treat or heat test or something - the brass before loading it -

Is this a feature or a bug?

It is normal. The bottleneck brass cases are annealed:

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/annealing/