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Anti-Federalist
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19,624 Posts
On the flip side, not submitting them for "approval" also doesnt make them illegal.

It just means they may or may not be "designed to be fired by one hand" and the ATF has not made an opinion.

But there is also no real "approval". If there was actual "approval" the bump stock ban would not have been allowed.

There is only opinion letters that the ATF issues about if they believe something complies with the law at the time the write the letter and how they are currently interpreting the law.
SB Tactical knew how the game was to be played because they submitted the SB1 and got ATF approval. They failed to do so with all the other braces. As much as I like to say FATF this was a poor business decision on SBT's part and now they got their hand slapped.
 

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Anti-Federalist
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19,624 Posts
Careful with that advice.

Length of pull and design of brace (i.e. designed to be fired by one hand) play a big role in if you will be prosecuted. Also, pistol buffer tubes generally are different (no notches for stock.. round).

It's not advice. An M4 has a 14.5" barrel so you are going to have to SBR with a stamp or put an APPROVED pistol brace on it.


...and no. Many pistol buffer tubes have notches. The Kak Shockwave for one.

 

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JABRONI AUTIST
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7,511 Posts
It's not difficult, we the people have the right to keep and bear arms. It doesn't say what we can and cannot own so why does the ATF think otherwise? All restrictive gun laws are unconstitutional, so likewise any law that violates any part of the constitution is considered void.
 

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Anti-Federalist
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19,624 Posts
It's not difficult, we the people have the right to keep and bear arms. It doesn't say what we can and cannot own so why does the ATF think otherwise? All restrictive gun laws are unconstitutional, so aren't all gun laws void because they violate our 2nd amendment?

Because a number of both Democrat and Republican presidents signed unconstitutional laws into existence and the SCOTUS has either upheld it or hasn't heard an argument against it yet.
 

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If this forum represents gun owners No wonder we lost the election
I could not agree more. We either fight against all 2nd Amendment haters or you should be prepared to eventually have something of yours taken from you. All they do is keep taking small things and picking away our rights. Either fight or shut up.
 

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6,162 Posts
Well the British didnt want those pesky anti-tax people to have cannons either. They were the WMDs of the day.

So what did the British do? They marched on Lexington and Concord to take gun powder and cannons.

Do you know the rest of the story?
I understand that. I also look at privateers, who were running ships with cannons. Maybe that's the equivalent of someone buying a Forrest Sherman destroyer. While there's still the possibility of malacious intent or a ND, I'm less worried about improper maintenance of a diesel electric and cannons vs a nuclear power plant or mssile in something else.
 

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Come on man!!
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15,379 Posts
ATF says 23 "braces" are now stocks. They're now SBR's.

I never really cared for AR pistols but any bureaucracy making law and/or changing law is unconstitutional, plain and simple.

They think Biden will be sworn in as president...........hold onto you socks folks, it's going to be rough for a while.


Should this be in the Political Forum? If so, my apologies.

Just saw the other thread.........delete if you like.
Seriously? Hyperbole much? Or are you just that dense?

Your thread title is intentionally misleading and nothing has been reclassified and no brace owners are felons because of brace ownership.

The ATF hasn't changed a classification on anything. The guy from Guns and Gadgets was reading a letter from 2018 and from the ATF to SB Tactical in which the ATF was telling them to get their **** together and quit saying braces had been approved by the ATF when SB Tactical had never even submitted them to the ATF for classification.

I own one of the SB tactical braces mentioned in that letter and I'm pissed at SB Tactical and not the ATF. SB Tactical said the brace had been classified as a brace by the ATF when in fact, it had not been. As a manufacturer, they knowingly lied to me.


Man there’s a lot of anti Second Amendment people on here. Either you’re 100% for the Second Amendment or you’re against it. You fight for it all or you lose it all.
While I agree with you 100%, millions and millions of Fudds and Zumbos do not and they think ARs, AKs, and "high capacity" magazines are evil and need to be banned.
 

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NRA Life Member
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64,992 Posts
It's not difficult, we the people have the right to keep and bear arms. It doesn't say what we can and cannot own so why does the ATF think otherwise? All restrictive gun laws are unconstitutional, so likewise any law that violates any part of the constitution is considered void.
The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law" but they have enacted laws against child pornography, among many other things. The one thing we can easily be sure "shall not be infringed" does not mean is that the feds and states don't have the power to make gun laws.
 

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Friends Call Me "Flash"
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4,432 Posts
People like me have been warning about the Liberal Left gun grabs for decades! All we got in return were jokes and references to aluminum foil hats. It's a shame that everyone is finally jumping on the reality bandwagon in 2020. It's too little and too late.

Smart A-holes trashed the NRA in good times and now, they've shot the bottom out of the NRA boat. We need NRA skill in changing the minds of Liberal members of Congress. Good luck, now!

Wait and see what happens. Unfortunately, the ones who puff and blow in 2020, are the ones who will kneel down to the rulers when it comes time to "Make Me!"

Flash
 

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The likely outcome will be that ATF rules braces that are adjustable or have a length greater than x inches are really intended to be used as stocks. So switch to one of the more basic, original brace designs or just roll with a bare buffer tube.
 

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Anti-Federalist
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19,624 Posts
The likely outcome will be that ATF rules braces that are adjustable or have a length greater than x inches are really intended to be used as stocks. So switch to one of the more basic, original brace designs or just roll with a bare buffer tube.

Which falls inline with their requirements of previously approved braces. LOP no greater than 13.5"
 

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I wonder how this affects my AR "Other". It was never a pistol or a rifle, but it does have a brace.
Buying a stripped lower and having it listed as other allows you to build it as a rifle, pistol, or short barrel rifle, but does not exempt you from the laws on each after you build it.
 
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Anti-Federalist
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Buying a stripped lower and having it listed as other allows you to build it as a rifle, pistol, or short barrel rifle, but does not exempt you from the laws on each after you build it.

I build all of mine as a pistol first. The amount of stupidity involved with NFA interpretation is laughable.
 

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Premium Member
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We let bump stocks go with barely a whimper. Executive Order, not reimbursed as the Constitution states. That set the tone. That was my first strike against Trump but everybody pro-Trumped it down. Now it's "I never liked SBR's, so I'm OK with it." We're going to be nibbled to death. It doesn't need to be an AWB, just a bit at a time.
 

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I'll preface this by announcing that I'm not a Fudd [but] anyone who could keep a straight face and call an AR a 'pistol' in the first place was just trying to convince themself that it wasn't a SBR. It was a nice loophole while it lasted, but what now?
You're missing the point. Under our legal system, laws mean what they say, not what we or some liberal beuracrat think they ought to have said. That is called living under the rule of law and it gives our society the kind of predictability that has allowed our economy to thrive as much as it has. The great thing about living in a free society is not having this constant fear that a mostly unenforced draconian law will suddenly be turned against you and your business because you didn't play the game that the corrupt politicians wanted you to play.
 

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According to the documents that I read, that is not what they “said”.

STB didn’t submit approval for 23 models, so .... (1) they may or may not be stocks, (2) didn’t charge their determination* (much less law), (3) STB mislead buyers about these models being approved.

*not that the ATF has reservations about reversing prior rulings.
Yup, SBT messed up real bad. Completely misled the public about the status of their product.
 

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Scottish Member
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11,678 Posts
Yup, SBT messed up real bad. Completely misled the public about the status of their product.
And as someone else noted, I think the letter from the ATF was dated back in 2018. So there really hasn't been a status change. I missed that on the first pass.
 
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