Both are NIB. Both have standard sights. Black Gen3 G17 w/ two 17 rd mags, case, etc. $499 shipped to your FFL Black Gen4 G17 w/ three 17 rd mags, 3 grip sizes ( short frame, standard size and large frame) , case. Nice new grip texture. Not as prickly as the RTF. $529 shipped. No trades right now. Thanks.