Would you feel undergunned... against crazy with Kevlar?

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by -JCN-, May 13, 2018.

  1. Yes, at home. Rifle or other fast caliber to penetrate.

  2. No, at home. I’ll take my chances.

  3. Yes, when out. Trunk rifle or other fast caliber.

  4. No, when out. I’ll take my chances.

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  1. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    http://www.khon2.com/news/local-new...th-fully-loaded-weapons-ammunition/1174630594

    Unfortunately may be more common for nutsos to use armor (like in Aurora).

    When talking about home, I want to be prepared for almost anything. So yes on home rifle for me.

    RVing, I just picked up a super compact Kel-Tec RDB Survival that is slim and only weighs 5 pounds. I also have a 300 Blk pistol (suppressed) that with supersonic ammo will do the job.

    For carry, I usually just take my chances with standard 9mm, but I guess I usually favor higher capacity in case of armored bad guy to have more chances to aim for smaller, unprotected areas.

    I wouldn’t normally feel “undergunned” with a J-frame snubbie. But I think I would against an armored bad guy.

    These are all super unlikely hypothetical situations. But when protecting my family, I don’t want to be thwarted by a $100 armor plate and low capacity....

    Anyone else with me? Or should I invest in another layer of tin foil for my hat? And Happy Mother’s Day! It’s a reminder of how much I love my wife and daughter and that I would do everything to protect them from those who would not respect their right to safety.
     
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  2. R_P_K_

    R_P_K_

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    If I have time to retrieve a rifle from my vehicle I have time to run. 99% of the time a rifle is not practical for me. At home 12 gauge. Where I live I worry about over penetration. In public, my AK would draw attention I think. If I traveled in an RV through gun friendly States I would have a rifle onboard.
     
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  3. G29guy06

    G29guy06

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    Is something crazy? Well when people like to discount my views as potential scenarios I say “yeah I know, it’s crazy...that’s about as crazy people flying planes into buildings...that’ll never happen- oh wait! It did!”

    Ever since that day all bets are off.

    Yes I do plan and prepare for if someone is wearing some type of armor...soft armor will fail w/ enough shots esp concentrated shots...armor plates is a bit different. They’ll eat some damage prob more than you can throw at them from your bedroom.
     
  4. TexasPOff

    TexasPOff "Tactical Hobbit"

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    Perfect example of why two and one training is so important. It also emphasizes shot placement, and how important it is in ending a conflict.

    While at the house it is much easier to have access to higher powered weapons, when out and about that is much more difficult.

    In an incident involving body armor, which we train for at my agency, shot placement is the priority. Everything else is secondary.

    In some situations we may have time to kit up and pull out our armory. In some situations, there is no time to grab something bigger.

    In my drag racing days the phrase "you run what you brung" fits, and you better be good with it if you want to win.


    TXPO
     
  5. techiej

    techiej

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    Even if they're wearing Kevlar, a couple of shots in the same general area is going to smart a bit.
     
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  6. Shawn 3212

    Shawn 3212

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    View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OyvwkBIt3V4




    If you are really concerned about it, you can carry a magazine loaded with this stuff in addition to your standard carry ammo. I do doubt your average joe will run into an assailant wearing body armor, but sometimes weird things happen.
     
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  7. Need4Speed

    Need4Speed

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    I’m a no-no, but this got me thinking. Might have to keep the 10mm handy at home instead of the snubbie.
     
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  8. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Shot placement, anyone?
     
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  9. R_P_K_

    R_P_K_

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    Why
    At home why would you not default to the 10mm anyway? I mean, I love me a snubby, but at home something more substantial, if available, is the way to go.
     
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  10. sciolist

    sciolist

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    I'd go ahead with the extra layer of foil.

    You also don't say whether you're still carrying the #20 FE on your back. Could go AIWB with that. I'd expect that to buy you some reaction time on the initial encounter.
     
  11. garya1961

    garya1961

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    It's very unlikely I will ever need to use my gun to defend myself much less against someone wearing armor. You will drive yourself crazy trying to prepare for every kind of scenario so I just prepare for the most likely. Although if I'm at home I always have a rifle close, I own several rifles so why not keep one ready.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  12. Struggle_Russ

    Struggle_Russ

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    First and foremost, do whatever you wanna do to make yourself comfortable. I'm not intending to talk trash about how someone else chooses to honestly protect them and theirs. I apologize for the incoming wall of text ha.

    Having said that, since you asked, I think there comes a point where you have to ask yourself if you feed into an outlying scenario with paranoia versus being prepared for a legitimate threat. All i mean by that is that I see someone/people talk about the items they have for different scenarios and they make it sound like they either live in a war zone or genuinely feel that they world will turn into a "Mad Max" or "World War Z" scenario in the coming year. This isn't that scenario in my opinion but we don't cover a mile on foot by blinking; we cover it one step at a time right?

    Here's an example of what I mean. Remember when they covered in the news about the stabbings in the UK and how it made them have a higher homicide rate than New York?
    I didn't suddenly feel the need to go out and buy cut resistant clothing to wear or buy the body armor that protects against stabbings. I see that as an out-lier issue in an area away from me that won't reach me. I have zero plans to travel there, let alone with any gear and that type of issue is close to nil in my living area. If you live in an area where stabbings are a common occurrence and feel that you are in a rather good chance of receiving the wrong end of a blade yourself, I understand investing in the protection. If someone is stabbed in another country and you see it as a reason to buy protection...I think that's a serious reach of justification. I recognize that Hawaii is a US State but also recognize that it might as well be the UK for CONUS Americans.

    There's two ways to buy things, watering it down greatly. One way is "I think this gear makes sense/ I could make a use for this, I'll have that."
    Another is "That could've been me I need/will definitely need this for a possible future event."
    The first is self explanatory. We all buy something at one point or another just because we like it enough to "justify" it. I bought 3 new OTF double action knives for carry purposes this weekend. I already have 2 others. I basically bought new ones because of color options and blade styles because I liked them enough.
    The second part is why we carry. We recognize danger and a need to defend against it. What I didn't do was convince myself I needed them as a back up to a back up, or make up a scenario where in I thought I could have a knife in my hand but would only be able to use my thumb to activate it without making use of wrist movement; ergo a situation where an OTF would save me, thus I need a total of 5 somehow. Maybe I was wearing a cast in my head and also tied up after they let me hold my knife? That's the bad side of the second part.

    Having a rifle for instance, for home or truck/car is fine in my opinion as part of a defensive plan. They have advantages defenders can make use of. But if you consider yourself just a normal person with a normal life yet are preparing like you are living in WACO, Tx as part of the Branch Davidians with an intent of not going down that way, one of two things probably needs to happen. Decide if you just like buying things to have options and have to "justify" your purchases or if you need, as you say, another layer on the tin foil hat.
    If you never plan on climbing Everest, are you going to buy cold weather gear and store a portable oxygen supply for the trip because one day you *might* (you know the odds say no) or plan reasonably for a winter camping trip in the Rockies because you like the mountains in the winter a little bit?

    This isn't an attack on choice, just sparked a long thought in my head.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  13. Lfi-Grad

    Lfi-Grad

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    100% solid brass or copper hollowpoints going 1200 FPS will do it pretty well. As long as its not steel-core, it is legal.
     
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  14. Gun Shark

    Gun Shark

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  15. Keith Pierson

    Keith Pierson Exploring Alternate Routes

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    Of the few dozen officers I know, and the ones they know,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    None claim to have ever arrested someone or heard of anyone arrested with body armor.
    It can happen, it can also be worked around. Anyone who takes a hit with armor and keep coming should be regarded as the most dangerous animal on earth and addressed as such.
    Reason #8675309 I prefer a rifle for any social work.
     
  16. Berto

    Berto woo woo

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    99% I'm gonna make do with what I carry- a j frame .38 with hot FBI loads and a couple speedloaders.
    At home, I have a rifle sighted 870 with an extended tube and sidesaddle loaded with Brennekes.
    It's not the answer for every contingency, but I feel it's more than I'll hopefully ever need.
     
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  17. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    Two to the Chest, one to the head. If Texas gets angry, I will simply tell them training takes over.
     
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  18. BFN

    BFN

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    I do have a 45-70 Marlin ready to go, I was preparing for a zombie attack, but 405 gr @ 2000 fps would hurt awful bad in the chest even with Kevlar.
     
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  19. Trench Sweeper

    Trench Sweeper On the day of your birth death began stalking you

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    Primary is a 10mm with a 357 in my pocket. No, I think I would feel fine. Even if all my rounds hit the vest and don't penetrate that's gonna do some internal damage and hurt more than a little bit.
     
  20. rick458

    rick458 USS Texas BB-35

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    Armor still leaves a LOT exposed. Arms, hands, legs, weapons etc..
    Still plenty to take damaging hits, that would stop or reduce the effectiveness of the attack, IMHO.
     
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