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· Registered
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124 Posts
Probably because it's a Royal PITA. I jus shipped a Mauser Sniper rifle that had been "Sporterized" with a Monte Carlo stock. The buyer actually just wanted the rifle, but the nice stock was a plus he could sell or use. I drove the 45 miles to the UPS after calling first and then waited while "The Manager" was found. I had both license's, everything totally legal, still you would have thought I was shipping a Pit Viper. I paid extra for bubble wrap and the rifle was already in a padded case, but guess what? It arrived broken at the stock wrist and it was not bubble wrapped. I'm still waiting for the claim adjuster to call. I had it insured, of course. Luckily the buyer is a nice, understanding Gentleman.
Sorry to hear about your unhappy experience with UPS mishandling your Mauser. Recently a large number of guns were stolen mid-shipment, in a burglary from trucks parked overnight in a UPS facility, ... maybe UPS needs to clean house among its management so to speak.

Also, I believe there's no such thing as too much packaging if you want to make sure what you ship will arrive secure and undamaged. I shipped an item because the buyer--who paid me in person at a show where he looked the item over before paying--was from another state. I made and kept a record of the state ID of the buyer. He provided his LGS/FFL's contact info, and it checked out. I packed the item securely at home--using a foam-interior guncase packed with styrofoam peanuts inside a secure cardboard box--but didn't seal it shut, and took it to a FEDEX facility; FEDEX required I take it to an actual facility, not a retailer who also serves as a drop off for FEDEX. Once the FEDEX service people agreed to accept it, I used a combination of cable ties on the guncase lockhasps and copious packing tape on the outside box to seal it. It arrived sealed at the FFL in the buyer's state who transferred it, and the buyer was very pleased with it.
 

· ******* Handyman
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1,843 Posts
Done many FTF sales on Armslist and to hell with all shipping BS as its too expensive. But I will only do deal with said person who has a valid CHL in my state otherwise they can be some shady riffraffs.
 

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361 Posts
Worst thing about selling without FFL on something you purchased through FFL is that you are the last owner of record when your firearm turns up in a crime. Nothing like having a friendly chat with police or BATF for something you don't own anymore.
 

· Banned
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I prefer to ship. That way I know it is going from FFL to FFL. Now, I have on rare occasion did a FTF with CCL holder.
 

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4,611 Posts
Because I just don't want to ship it If that doesn't suit you, Oh well.
 

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11,283 Posts
FTF allows buyer to examine prior to purchase. Any I sell either have receipt and copy of DL for both parties, or ship after I receive your FFL copy with payment (US Postal MOs). Payment is cashed, and cleared, before firearm moves an inch. And buyer is told that up front.

That, as well as copious pics avoids 99.9% of issues.

I prefer FTF sales due to convenience.
 

· Supreme Member
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4,606 Posts
Armslist was designed specifically for local, FTF transactions, and they actually advise no long distance sales.

If you're looking for a long distance deal, use Gunbroker.
 

· Curmudgeon
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593 Posts
I accept only USPS money orders, ship only to the address on the FFL. The gun Nazis in my area criminalized paperless PPT. The Postmaster will investigate any misgivings with regards to payment. Never had an issue.
 

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23 Posts
I prefer to purchase face to face. I got taken for over $500 due to an on-line transaction.
Shipper was a liar, the forum moderator was a friend of his, or just a real dick, and the US Postal Money Order I used was worthless as the Postal Service basically said go f___ yourself.
I have not made an on-line gun purchase in over 3 years now.
 

· Registered
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6 Posts
I too shop on ArmsList, and I agree about all ads for sales have the box checked "no" for shipping. But if find a firearm that I'd like to try to buy, I just ask..... When I message the owner I tell them I will pay the asking price and explain that I am from another state and ask about there willingness to ship. I'm 2 for 3 so far... B
 

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985 Posts
FTF transactions are a lot less hassle. I've only shipped a handful of items in the past year or so, but in the past year I've had 2 buyers start cases requesting refunds due to shipping damage or missing items. In both cases, I packed everything very well and even took pictures of everything before and after it went in the box. I spent a bunch of money on shipping and insurance. One of the items shipped had a ton of damage - like it was dropped off the roof of a UPS truck. Anyway, I fought like hell for their insurance to pay, and they denied. (Lesson - if you ship through UPS, pay for them to pack. If you don't, they will claim improper packing and you're screwed.)

On the other case, the buyer claims that they didn't receive the item. The shipper has a GPS tag on the location of delivery showing the buyer's address - it appears that the item was stolen from the buyer's porch. The shipper can prove that they delivered to the correct address, so no insurance claim. Yet, the buyer is pushing for a refund. I'm fighting it, as I feel that I did everything right - but ebay seems to be siding with the buyer.

As a seller, the amount of time and money spent packing, shipping and insuring the items are delivered in good condition is considerable. (The time is very considerable!) In the end, if the buyer decides to request a refund with the online auction, the seller has an uphill battle - and will probably lose.
DIRECT Adult Signature Required, solves that problem every time
 

· NRA Benefactor
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6,274 Posts
I will do FTF, but only at an FFL anymore. I don't want it to be in my name after I've sold it, I don't know the person who's buying it, and I don't know if he is restricted from buying a firearm.

Back in the day when I worked for a dealer we had regular customers at the store and who had purchased through us. If I had purchased a private party gun, I would sell it to them because I knew them and knew they were okay.

I do not want to be the one who sells to someone who ends up in the news.
 

· Registered
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1,312 Posts
I hear you guys on quick FTF cash transactions. However, “FTF ONLY” transactions raise eyebrows to me.

And how hard is it to pack up a gun and take it to UPS, USPS or FedEx?
An individual can not ship via USPS. FedEx and UPS policy require non FFL holders to ship over night from a hub, not a satellite location. It make it pain in the rear. Also, some FFLs will not accept shipments from an individual.

Fortunately, my area has a very active buy/sell/trade forum. It’s easier to do a local FTF cash transaction or a trade.
 

· Semper Fi
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1,557 Posts
An individual can not ship via USPS. FedEx and UPS policy require non FFL holders to ship over night from a hub, not a satellite location. It make it pain in the rear. Also, some FFLs will not accept shipments from an individual.

Fortunately, my area has a very active buy/sell/trade forum. It’s easier to do a local FTF cash transaction or a trade.
Ok
 

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17,442 Posts
FTF you get to see and inspect the gun, I get cash we both walk away happy.

If I ship the gun to your FFL, you pick up the gun, pay transfer fee, don't like it, have to ship it back, costs $40 to $50 each way.

And it's a pain to ship a gun, every time I go to fed ex or ups I get a different story, the people behind the counter make up their own rules.

I sold a rifle on Gunbroker, gun was as described, imperfections were shown in photos . Guy got the gun , paid his dealer fees filled out the 4473, took the gun home. Then basically tried to extort money out of me by saying gun was covered in rust, not as described and if I didn't refund him some money he would give me bad feedback . I told him to ship the gun back and I would refund his money minus shipping fees as per Gunbroker rules. He decided to keep the gun. But that is the last gun I sold and shipped. Everything from now on will be FTF.

Why won't I ship? Because I have shipped and it was more of a pain in the ass than it was worth. You want to ship a gun, go for it. Me I'm natural making enough money on the deal to justify the hassel.
 

· Beretta 92 Nut!
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7,563 Posts
I have sold many times over the years. I ONLY do FTF sales. When I drive off, it's done. All done.

I live between Houston, Waco and Austin. It is SO easy to sell and be done.

Plus, I am not willing to eat the shipping and local FFL costs. That's an extra $50. If that is added to the price, then it would not sell. ($25 FFL transfer fee and the $25 they charge to ship)
 

· Registered
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8,868 Posts
You can’t be trusting Armslist sellers to ship. Yes, some are trustworthy, but it wouldn’t be long & you would be ripped off.

You need to inspect in person, or have your surrogate do so. Even doing that, take normal precautions.
 
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