Why the background check system DOES need to be fixed

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by WarCry, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. WarCry

    WarCry

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    I know that no one wants to admit that anything coming out of Washington right now might POSSIBLY be valid, but there really is something to be said - in my opinion - for getting folks on the same page.

    Mentally ill killer amassed huge arsenal, police say

    Hyperbole of the headline aside, there was a REAL failing in the system here.

    Guy was committed in 1998 after being convicted of murdering his mother. He was locked away until he was 21 years old then seems to have simply fallen off the earth. His information was never updated in the state's Bureau of Criminal Apprehension database, which means there wouldn't have been a way for it to move on to the federal system, either.

    That should be - and is - one of the focuses of TRUE gun control measures. Not a "de facto" registration as some call it, but an honest-to-God STRONG push for agencies across the country to get this information put into a system. This is a text-book example of a guy that shouldn't have passed through legitimate channels to get firearms.


    Is there any agreement at ALL that this is something that seriously needs to be addressed?
     
  2. GunHo198

    GunHo198

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    I agree. They need to fix there criminal databases and leave us alone.


    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     

  3. blackjack

    blackjack

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    While this guy should have been barred from firearms, we should not lose sight of the fact that this background check problem is one that is ripe for abuse if we don't watch carefully.
     
  4. Slug71

    Slug71

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    Agreed.
     
  5. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    No, I don't think it needs to be addressed. There is no crisis and those who think there is are just buying the propaganda campaign (if not taking part in it).

    Yes, in that case and a few more, a guy who was mentally ill, and was determined to no longer be a danger (as he had to be to be released), managed to buy guns, due to an oversight in the system. So what? That doesn't concern me or cause me to think laws need to be changed. It was already against the law and the state needs to take a look at the oversight and fix the process - no new laws affecting 312,000,000 people are needed, when laws already exist to address this 1 person.

    I'd assume that it somehow didn't make it into the system because he was a juvenile who was not convicted of a crime and somehow the civil commitment didn't get in, at that time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  6. 427

    427

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    He killed his mother in 1996.

    He was charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm, yet obtained a permit in May that allowed him to buy guns through Minnesota dealers.

    Never mind that he was at one point committed to a funny farm, why wasn't his criminal record accessible? Who's fault is that?
     
  7. *ASH*

    *ASH* FURBANITE

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    agreed
     
  8. WarCry

    WarCry

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    I'm not sure I mentioned anything about new laws, but one of the proposals is to start pushing applicable agencies to report in accordance with current laws.

    The President's actions proposed include the following:
    Now, neither of those would have helped if the state didn't update their OWN system, but it IS a viable start. These aren't new laws, these are proposals to get all the information where it needs to be.

    As for saying it wouldn't help, I disagree. The only recent shootings that it wouldn't have applied to are Sandy Hook and the firefighter shooting. The shooter in Newtown didn't get professional help (his mom was trying to avoid that, according to friends and neighbors) and the guns were stolen, and the guy that shot the firefighters had someone else buy the guns.

    But what about the rest? Cho at VT, Kazmierczak at NIU, Loughner in Tucson, Holmes in Aurora. All of these shooters show histories that should - or at least could - have flagged and stopped them from purchasing guns.

    I didn't say new laws needed to be written. I also didn't say it would be the solution or magically cure all the gun woes in this country. But to say the system doesn't need to be addressed? I don't understand how you come to that conclusion, because it's
     
  9. G26S239

    G26S239 NRA Patron

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    More like scumbag sob sisters need to quit releasing people like Christian Oberender, Kenneth McDuff, Arthur Shawcross and Edmund Kemper III to be able to murder more people.

    Do a search on those names if you don't know who they are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  10. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    The article I read said he was adjudicated delinquent in juvenile court for killing his mother. As a result, he was not convicted of any crime, much less a felony. According to that article, the only thing barring him from owning a gun would be the commitment to a nuthouse.

    Juvenile court does not convict people of crime - that's why they use the word "adjudicate" and why they don't have a right to jury trials or all sorts of other things the constitution requires for a criminal conviction.

    However, Minnesota does have a specifi statute (probably unconstitutional) prohibiting people who have been adjudicated in juvebnile court for a "crime of violence" from possessing a firearm. The police may very well have used the title "felon" on the citation, but it doesn't apply. Minn. St. § 624.713 CERTAIN PERSONS NOT TO POSSESS FIREARMS

    Under federal law, he would only be prhibited based on the commitment for being mentally ill.

    That's a pretty harsh statute - Minn,. will take away your gun rights for life for all sorts of things that don't involve a criminal conviction and wouldn't prohibit you under federal law or the laws of most states.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  11. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    Cho was not a prohibited person and had never been involuntarily committed. To prohibit him, you'd have to prohibit anybpody who every talked to a psychologist. I actually got to talk to deans and security officials from all of Kentucky's state universities and a lot of other colleges after that one - best I recall from preparing, he wasn't a prohibited person udner federal or state law. I even managed to point out to them that banning guns on campus might not help, since they were already banned at Va. tech.

    Loughner was not a prohibited person and had never been involuntarily committed - at worst, he had possessed drug paraphernalia, painted graffiti and was a bad employee. You'd have to prohibit every person that a non-professional thought was acting strange.

    Kazmierczak at NIU was not a prohibited person and had never been involuntarily committed - his parents sent him for treatment for being an "unruly" teenager at home.

    James Holmes in Aurora - less prohibited than any of the guys above,(he just talked to some counselors or psychologists at his college) but I understand he was a nerd. Maybe we could prohibit all nerds from possessing firearms, as a Kentucky writer suggested in a newspaper column after Newtown.

    So, without a new law to prohibit more people, none of this would matter to any of the shootings you mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  12. Dragoon189

    Dragoon189

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    Any background check law would be useless without registration. I can write up any bill of sale with a false date. Without records of when and to who guns go to the background check requirements can be ignored by the criminals causing the crimes
     
  13. Dragoon189

    Dragoon189

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    To clarify - background check bad be cause registration is really bad.
     
  14. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts Brew Crew

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    Just enforce the laws we already have, accept that no system is perfect and poop is going to happen and leave us non-criminal types alone!
     
  15. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    Exactly my opinion as well.

    This modern hysteria to fix every single event with a new law aimed at every possible future event is crazy and is destroying this country.
     
  16. tarpleyg

    tarpleyg

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    I do not like or agree with the "background check" idea. I also don't subscribe to the idea that criminals who have served their sentence not be allowed to protect themselves. Color me crazy but if someone is too dangerous to own a gun, they're too dangerous to be out on the streets. That applies to mental cases too. I'm not sure what the right answer is but I can just imagine the uproar that will come when we are forced to go to a shrink every 5 years so he can opine that we are okay to own or buy a gun. There are way too many oppotunities for abuse if the backround check system gets an overhaul.
     
  17. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    I agree again.
     
  18. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    No need for a background check at all. If someome is dangerous, keep them locked up.

    It really is that simple.

    ___________
    I joined the NRA, have you yet?
     
  19. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

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    It is refreshing to see the direction this thread has taken.
     
  20. I'M Glockamolie

    I'M Glockamolie

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    Texas answer: The guy shotgunned his mother. Let the state decide whether he's in a mental institution or a prison for the rest of his life. There is no letting someone like that loose on society under any circumstances. I guess I'm a simpleton.