Home > The Armory > Reloading > Why mouse fart loads?

Why mouse fart loads?

  1. Seems a number of people are interested in "mouse fart" loads, i.e. loads that barely cycle the slide.

    My question is: why?

    If it's practice you're after, wouldn't you be better off with full power loads, so that when SHTF the rounds you'll be using will feel the same as they did during your practice sessions? That's especially important for followup shots, since the recoil has a huge impact on time-on-target for followups.

    If it's because you prefer the low recoil, wouldn't you be better served by going to a smaller caliber or perhaps even a gas blowback airsoft gun?


    I guess I just don't see any advantages of such low power loads that other cheaper (and, sometimes, more flexible) alternatives cannot provide, but maybe someone can enlighten me on this...
     
  2. I am in agreance with you here, however I think the idea is to improve upon other aspects of shooting that have little to do with recoil. Personally I wish all my practice rounds were as hot as what I carry.
     
  3. Sometimes when people go shooting it's not practice for SD/HD or SHTF. It's just a lets see if I can hit the X kinda thing, you know sooting for fun or just the "sport" of trying to hit some cans off of a fence or something. :cool:
     
  4. Couple of reasons:

    1) if you are trying to familiarize someone who has never shot, a light load gets them started without developing a flinch.

    2) there is a niche group, particularly amoung rifle boolit shooters, that pursue the VLS (very low speed)load. This group, goes for accuracy, while pushing rifle rounds at 600-700fps. The challenge is in getting MOA groups at 100 yards while not exceeding 750fps. Why? Because not everyone has the skills to load such a round. It's a challenge.

    Personally, I don't know why they are called mouse fart loads. I load a light target round in .38 spl. I've put 5 shots in a very small hole.

    When it comes to defense, I'd prefer to get one slow moving, quiet hit, than 100 fast, loud misses.
     
  5. I only see the point when introducing a new shooter to a larger caliber. FOr me, if I want to shoot lighter, loads I drop a bore size. When guys start shooting too light, changing springs & krap, it just makes no sense. I never change a gun to match a load. I load to match the gun & then learn to shoot it. It is one relm the revolver rules. Flea flicker loads to elephant loads all in one gun w/o modifications.
     
  6. My mouse fart load is a 124 gr bullet going 1050 fps. Thats not that far off what a normal 124 gr non +P load would do. Maybe 60fps or so shy of normal. But it feels way softer then WWB or any other factory load I have tried. So it's not about performance as much as feel for me.
     
  7. Over the years I've loaded plenty of ammunition till it was hotter than the hinges of Hell. It made holes in paper targets and holes in deer. The targets did not feel the hole. The deer all dropped like they were hit with a cannon. At some point I got interested in shooting steel plates at various distances. I was amazed that it didn't take a cannon to knock them down. I noticed that the lighter loads gave better accuracy. I noticed also that my scores in competition were better. And when hunting, I noticed that none of the deer complained that I did not shoot them with a LoudEnBoomer. They just cooperated by falling down and dying when I put a round through their heart/lungs. I also took note that my daughters took to shooting these less than maximum loads like the proverbial ducks to water. I decided that I didn't need to prove anything to anyone by loading my rifles and pistols to the absolutely red line limit. I get a lot of pleasure out of shooting my pistols and revolvers and rifles. Less than maximum loads allow me to shoot more comfortably, more accurately and a little more economically. With such loads my daughters have gained a great deal of experience in shooting as well as developing a abiding interest in the shooting sports. When there is a need, I load up with full-power ammunition. But when that is not needed, I go ahead and use loads that are easier on my handgun and on me. Sincerely. Brucev.
     
  8. Agreed, but I will add... or a "180g bullet doing 920 Fps" in some cases.
    In actuality some of the factory produced larger calibers don't even make what is considered to be major power factor.
    Like Steve says it's about feel...
     
  9. I totally agree w/ this. Changing springs, etc.. so you can shoot really light loads, makes little sense to me. I usually load some fairly light .38spl loads when showing a new shooter the ropes. I've also got a light 9mm load I like. Beyond that though, I typically try to get my ammo in the area of WWB for that caliber.

    I think some folks like loading as close to a certain power factor for competition as well. I've never shot loads like that, so maybe they aren't actually mouse farts...

    IGF
     
  10. Exactly,

    And, if your going to "play the game with .40 S&W"

    180 gr @ 722 FPS
    200 gr @ 650 FPS

    OR

    220 gr @ 590 FPS

    All of them make 130 Power Factor.

    That 220 gr you can watch it as it goes to the target. That is a mouse fart load. NOTHING like factor ammo. Thats gammin to the max.
     


  11. Actually standing on the target and shooting down between your feet doesn't count as putting '5 shots in a very small hole'. :whistling:

    Jack
     

  12. That's an important point. You kinda have to define your mouse fart :supergrin:

    I've got IDPA gamer loads that shoot to just above the required power factor and some would consider them mf loads -but they are not actually the softest shooting loads possible in my Glocks.

    I shot CDP (the 45acp division) at Nationals using a handloaded 230gr Montana Gold jacketed bullet that was officially chronographed at 755fps. So that 173pf is not what I'd call a mouse fart load, but it was about 65fps slower than WWB last time I clocked it in my G21sf.

    And to those who see no value in pulling a trigger on any load that's not full power factory ammo -I'd simply offer the fact that I personally am a much better shooter because of my addiction to the IDPA game. The more competitive I get the better my overall shooting has become -regardless of what ammo I choose.

    As an example, I often shoot a very gamey 40 load (180gr moving 750fps). It sorta levels the SSP playing field for the 40 shooters vs the softer 9mm guys. But I recently shot my best time ever in the classifier using a G22 and factory 40 ammo (WWB). IOW, the trigger time and general competitive nature of the game has made me a better overall shooter regardless of what ammo I grab to shoot that day. I seriously think many folks discount the nature of "sports" shooting and really do overlook the benenfit they could receive from it.

    BTW, some folks misunderstand the purpose of changing recoil springs. It can let you shoot a milder "Bullseye" load that might not function in the gun otherwise. But many in the action pistol sports are using the spring change to reduce the feel of the recoil impulse. IOW, the actual load is still pretty hot but the impulse is faster.
     
  13. Hey, that's my load too. Just for the heck of it, I compared a few rounds the other day (primarily checking for accuracy).

    115gr Blazer Aluminum
    124gr PD FMJ, Win brass, 1.155 OAL, 1050fps
    124gr MG CMJ, Win brass, 1.155 OAL, 1050fps

    I fired 5 shot groups, slow, at 7yds.

    The Blazer was noticeably snappier in recoil, and the first target was not much of a group.
    I shot the PD next and got a very nice small group (5 holes I can cover with a nickel).
    Then the MG and got nice group (one hole about the size of nickel and one hole about a nickel away from the big one).
    Then I reshot the Blazer and got a much better group than the first one, similar to the MG group.

    Based on those results, I can't really say any of these loads is more accurate than another...but at least my reloads did at least as well as if not slightly better than Blazer...and with much less recoil.

    Less recoil = faster/better follow-up shots at matches.
     
  14. Ok Big Boy. You try doing it with 6 cups of coffe in ya. Bet ya shoot your toes off. :tongueout:
     
  15. I got past the "flash & awe" phase of reloading about 4 decades ago and never looked back. It's wrong to assume everyone that shoots and particularly, those that shoot in volume, do so as defensive practice. While I do an amount of defensive work I feel necessary (for me), I shoot primarily for no reason other than, I like it. Since my focus as a reloader is primarily to achieve loads that are very accurate -and- pleasurable to shoot I tend to shoot factory velocity loads very seldom. This has no relationship with defensive ability regardless of the popular notion and in many cases, the opposite can be true...shooting pleasurable loads leads to more shooting and development of better techniques. Muscle memory tends to be retained and carried over regardless of what's in the chamber. There is some truth to the old axiom that in a life or death situation you will invariably sink to the level of your training and I find more range time a lot easier and more fun with softer loads...not to mention, a lot less beating on the guns.

    Another factor is those who shoot competitively and especially, minor power factor games. The objective is to win and to do that, you need the ability to shoot as fast and accurately as possible...that ain't happening much with OEM velocity loads. Those shooting major power factor games also strive to do so with the least amount of recoil and best sight tracking possible...often, guns as well as loads are tailored to the game. If you want to see some really soft loads and what they're capable of, check out what the Bullseye shooting guys are loading...very few stock 1911's could cycle them.

    As for modifying the gun to suit the load well, I say if it's what you want to do, it's your gun. My defensive weapons...that is, the ones I actually carry and would bet my life on, are pretty much stock with nothing more than a minor add-on here & there. My range guns are another story with every one of them tweaked to have a very nice trigger and re-sprung to shoot most anything I might want (including, some minor and sub-minor loads) with a nice recoil track. If someone don't like soft-shooting stuff, don't load 'em but there's nothing wrong with it for those that do.
     


  16. Very, very good post... many would be wise to not only read it several times but to also practice the message.

    Kudos.

    Jack
     
  17. The problem is everyone is calling starting loads a mousefart. To me, a mousefart is a cast bullet for 32ACP with a pinch of Bullseye/Red Dot etc. I could think of lots of uses for that. VEWWY QUIET!!

    I never loaded anything like that, but I have some 95 grain 0.311" RN bullets and a couple of 30-06 guns and plenty of Bullseye so I will someday just for shoots and giggles.

    To me, a 40SW with a 180 cast bullet at about 700fps is not a mousefart, it's more like a 40SW version of the old 148WC load.
     
  18. In many competitions, it's not a question of power, but of accuracy at speed. It's easier to accomplish that in G17 using a light load than with a G22 using full power service ammo. It's called gaming. My 147-gr 9mm loads have a PF or 129, while my 40's and 45's are at about 145. All are well below the lowest powered factory loads. In IDPA the minimum PF is 125. In GSSF, steel is calibrated to fall with a 9mm 115-gr factory load. The object is to knock the steel down, not blast a hole through it.
     

  19. A good wabbit load indeed but wemember... never dwink wodka while hunting... you might get sick and womit. :whistling:

    Jack
     
  20. Some of us shoot GSSF. There is not a power factor. The name of the game is speed and accusary. So the faster you can get back on target the better. This is using stock factory recoil springs. So we try for as light as a load that we can get, with accuracy and reliability of the firearm.
    Also some of us shoot 400 to 600 rounds in a match and in practice just about every week in one day. Try doing that with full power loads. I have shot 1000rds of 45acp and 1000rds of 9mm everyday for a couple of weeks of full power loads during gun tests. Full power loads get old fast.
    Most gun battles are between 0 too 21 feet. If I remember right 2.5 rds fired and lasts for about the same amount of time. Being on a firing line and in a gun battle are two different things. On the firing line you notice the recoil in a gun battle the majority of people are not going too notice if they are shooting a full power load or a mouse fart load. So in the long run you are a lot better off in shooting 50 or 100 rds. Practice your fundamentals and then only shooting 10 or 20 full powder loads. It is a lot easier on you and the gun and when you get older you don’t develop a jerk like I did.
     
  21. Thanks for the replies so far. Very interesting.

    When I say "full power" load, I don't necessarily mean that it has to fully reproduce the recoil characteristics of factory self-defense ammunition. But getting reasonably close, so that your performance with self-defense ammo would be about the same as it is with your practice ammo, seems like it would be a logical thing to do.

    As it happens, the recoil characteristics of my loads aren't as harsh as those of factory self defense ammunition, but they are reasonably close. I load for safety first, then accuracy, then power. Which is to say, I tend to stay away from maximum charge loads because they give no room for error on the upside: the charge had better never exceed maximum (though realistically, with the powder I'm using, a tenth of a grain or two over max occasionally would probably not break anything, but why take the risk when you don't have to?). And if I have to trade power to get accuracy, I'm willing to do that. It's more important for me to know that failures to hit what I'm aiming are are attributable to me than it is for me to get recoil characteristics identical to factory SD ammo.

    I'm not enamored with "flash and awe" or anything of that sort. I don't load in order to make a bigger boom. Some people like to do that but I haven't any use for it.

    I shoot for enjoyment more than anything else, like many of you. But as it happens, I enjoy shooting full power loads as much as I enjoy shooting something less powerful. But if it's less power that you want, why not go with a smaller caliber and save some money on bullets if nothing else? Larger caliber guns often (but certainly not always) have conversion barrels available for them so while there's an initial expense, it's not huge. The savings over time would probably offset it relatively quickly, depending on how much you shoot.

    If I want essentially zero recoil in practice (or whatever), I'll shoot my airsoft pistol and save a huge pile of money at the same time, as well as gaining the not inconsiderable advantage of being able to shoot in my back yard.

    About the only situation I can think of, which is a fairly common situation, is when there's a competition. If your goal is to do better than other people then a lower recoil round that achieves the necessary power factor will help. I haven't shot competition, yet, and I'm considering it, but I don't think I'd care too much about whether or not my shooting was better or worse than someone else's so much as whether or not it's improving over time. My competition in that case would be myself, and I'd be using a full power load so that the experience of shooting in competition and the (heaven forbid it should ever be needed) experience of shooting in the real world will be the same. As has been said, your real-world performance will sink to your training, and I expect the recoil characteristics of the training will matter, even if only a little.

    By all means, if you prefer a mousefart load then shoot it! There's nothing wrong with it. I just wanted to find out what reason people have for using it.

    Keep the replies coming!
     
  22. Not every facet of shooting is SHTF oriented.
     
  23. To dudel (who is now on my ignore list, so reply if you want, I won't see it);

    7yds is actually quite a bit closer than I usually practice...but the point was to see how tight a group I could get...and I just don't get tight groups at 25yds. I have no problem knocking down the plates or even clearing a Texas star at 25yds...but there's a difference between trying to hit the same point 5 times and trying to hit any point on an 8" target.
     
  24. My days (and nights) of pouring down tumblers of cracked ice leveled off with Polish vodka are over. I got older and found out what Hank Jr. meant when he sang "The hangovers hurt more than they used to"

    Oh, and speaking of drinking and your Scotch habbit, it's so classic. Where I come from Cutty and water is the national drink of the NJ chater of the Sinatra fan club. Your family must have been descendants of Wrongway Columbus himself. They landed in Florida when they were aiming for Belleville,NJ.:supergrin:
     
  25. Thats good shooting.

    Texas Star at 25 yds would make for some very unhappy people at our club. I know that a lot of the people would run out of ammo before they finished that stage. Especially some of the newer shooters with iron sights.
     
  26. Glock 17, Meprolight ML10226 sights. If I go slow, I can pretty reliably knock down 6 plates (on a GSSF-like plate rack) at 25yds with 6 shots. The Texas star at 25yds, I'll miss one or two shots, but I will clear it while its still moving pretty good.

    The sad thing is, as I've been shooting less, I'm actually better now with the 17 and iron sights than with my 34 with an Optima. It used to be the other way around.
     
  27. Do you practice with your ears off? If you're simulating the load, why not simulate other aspects of the environment? Noise can be very disorienting.

    I've found that my accuracy is within MOBB with light or heavy loads. I'll shoot the regular loads; but more frequently the lighter ones. Never saw the need to load barn burner loads.
     
  28. in the gun games there is often no option to go smaller as you say and stay within the rules. loading lighter is the only option. to use the inverse of your logic, if you enjoy shooting a round at or near full power why not use a larger more powerful round and get more enjoyment out of the experience?
     

  29. Fred:

    I'll only change springs to increase tension to accomodate hotter loads for my pistols. I laugh when I see these "racegun" matches. These guns are barely cycling. I wanna see these boys shoot standard loads or even defence type loads, - that'll be fun to see....:rofl:
     
  30. It depends on what you are practicing for. I don't load mouse farts but I don't load full power either. I'm not practicing SD I'm practicing for competition. I want to be able to keep my gun on target as easy as possible and a full power load won't let me do that.
     
  31. Opposition reflex (the tendency of you to resist any force exerted on your body) is less with lighter loads. therefore you spend less time trying to fight recoil and your own subconscious and more time working on good fundamentials. After all shooting only involves two things. Lining up the sight were you want the bullet to go and pulling the trigger without moving the sights. Everything else is just your mind and body reacting to the shot. So everything else is about teaching your body to react the way you want it to instead of how you nerves are wired. The harder something pushes against you the harder you resist.

    When I started shooting light loads my shooting got better. I was able to work more on other fundamentals without recoil getting in the way. Not a big deal to most people. the average shooter is just trying to get holes more or less were they want them on paper. but if you are trying to compete the difference between winning and losing is very small sometimes fractions of a second over several strings. SO just your barrel dropping back down faster makes a big difference.

    Am I worried about a self defense situation? No not at all. Most of the time muscle memory takes 1000 to 1500 repetitions to become ingrained. I if you are a competition shooter you should be shooting that many round a month.
     

  32. Many people mistakenly believe that 'Anchors Aweigh' is one of the first seafaring songs... not true. The first seafaring song was sung by the courageous Italian crews of the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria...

    "Hey Mr. Columbus turn the ships around... we want to feel our feet back on good old solid ground. Tell Queen Isabel that the world is round... hey Mr. Columbus turn the ship around."

    Not one or our prouder moments but thankfully Gioacchino Rossini was able to overshadow that catchy little ditty be penning the Barber of Seville. :whistling:

    Jack
     
  33. I though he was freezing because he had no underwear?
















    Oh wait, that was George Washington.:rofl:
     
  34. I don't know what matches you go to but every match I have seen where there is a "Racegun" catagory. The minimum power floor is 165 including 9mm which is in most cases a 115g at over 1400 Fps.
     
  35. Makes no sense to use underpowered loads for defensive training purposes....what happens if you actually have to use full power +P self defense ammo :dunno:
     
  36. I get requests from some of my competition shooters that I load for asking for light loads for matches. No big deal to me. As long as they will knock over a steel target and the shooter is happy they keep coming back with money.
     
  37. I used to firmly believe that; but not any more. I tend to subscribe to the Shotgunred theory. Get the sight picture right, get the trigger squeeze right and everything else is after the fact. I find I shoot better with lighter loads (not necessarily mouse farts). Recovery is better, follow up shots are better. I still shoot the regular loads, and I don't see any difference in my targets between light and regular loads. So, I'll load cheaper loads, and shoot more.

    On the other hand, the person who shoots on box of SD loads a year really hasn't trained either. Same question to you as to KC. Just curious, to you also practice with your ears off? Noise can be very disorienting (expecially indoors).
     


  38. Okay, been cleaning the house, now I'm tired and bored... might as well stir the pot a little... or a lot.

    I realize that I'm a newb to reloading and can't hold a candle to many around here when it comes to ballistics, powder choices, PF's, gaming, casting or most anything else... lets just say that with my limited abilities I'd have trouble spelling 'cat' even if I was spotted the 'C' and the 'T'.

    The one thing I do have a bit of experience in however is 'social interaction' on a less than an amicable level.

    Throughout the decades I have learned, both through personal experience and those who I've worked with and were kind enough to share their first hand experiences during debriefings, investigations or training sessions; there are many misconceptions when it comes to the majority of 'serious social' encounters.

    Before I offend anyone let me state that these are my observations alone and certainly are not intended to include all possible scenarios.

    Contrary to somewhat popular belief, there not only is no need to practice, (train) with full load 'carry' ammunition, it serves no real life benefit. This statement obviously precludes any argument one might make about ensuring functionality, proper terminal ballistic performance for a given need, complying with given laws or even department regulations... all of those are a given and not even a subject of debate.

    The simple fact is, in a real life situation you could fire a howitzer in a phone booth and never feel the recoil, see the muzzle flash or hear the report. Your body, as well as all of your senses, as part of its natural desire for survival, reacts quite differently in a potentially life ending situation.

    D. Manley posted very eloquently in his observation that 'muscle memory' will ultimately dictate your actions and performance, not your performance being dictated by recoil.

    Sure it's fun to feel a gun buck in your hand under a heavy load, there's something viscerally satisfying in it... we all like it but it does nothing to enhance your overall abilities when normally dormant chemicals are coursing through your body. Consider an analogy for a moment; someone sneaks up behind you and jabs you in the butt with a simple little stick pin, your natural body response will be to suddenly jump forward... an involuntary response. Now reflect back on numerous instances where a parent, an average individual, somehow finds the strength to lift a several thousand pound vehicle off their child... or even a total stranger. Could it be done in a normal, non-emergency situation? Probably not... but in a life threatening situation it's amazing what are bodies are capable of reacting to... or ignoring.

    If you are a gamer, (I'm jealous, I can't move quick enough to get out of the way of a parked bus), practice your sport, use the rules to your advantage and remember to smile for the pictures at the awards ceremony.

    If you actually carry a gun for potential social interactions you must still practice... and train... but in a different manner. (It's still a game but as Bill Jordan once said... "There's no second place winner".

    Rounds down range is the key. Ten thousand .22's will teach you more about muzzle awareness than a thousand full power loads... walking parallel to the berm and having a friend throw out a piece of broken clay bird from behind you will teach you more about instinctive, or reflex shooting than NRA target style shooting, (a fading art that is by far the best way to learn the basics of real pistol shooting), and shooting in dim light, rain, snow, heat and wind will teach you more than a pleasant day at the range on a Chamber of Commerce type day.

    One other point before I fire up the vacuum again... if you carry a gun, learn to shoot one-handed... strong and weak. During social interactions the one partner you can absolutely rely on being there with you is our old friend, Murphy. If it can go wrong it will go wrong, and if you're not prepared for it it's gonna be a real bad day.

    Again, these are simply my observations... yours may be entirely different.

    Jack
     
  39. I also agree with shotgunred. You hear too many people criticize competition shooters, saying they only shoot well cause they use only minimum power floor loads. I say to look again as to what shotgunred reiterated and believe it.
    A classic example is Dave Sevigney, you hear that comment about him all the time. Just recently he broke a personal record in the IDPA classifier sub 60 seconds with a completely stock 4th Gen G22 and Major PF loads from Atlanta Arms. All the best competition shooters in the world past and present use match designed loads. I would put my money on any of them doing better in both competition and SHTF situations then any of the "Only because you shoot… do they do better" nay Sayers from the peanut gallery.
     
  40. Maybe...but I sure wouldn't bet against Rob Leatham, David Sevigney, Brian Enos or anyone else with serious competitive skills. If you think these guys are only competent with "girly-man" loads, you're mistaken. Frankly, I wish I could shoot just a fraction as well with any kind of load.

    +1. In fact, it takes a tremendous amount of gasses to run a true, "racegun" which translates into very hot loads. The recoil is minimized by the escaping gasses making the comp "work". Light loads and most factory loads will not even cycle a comped gun reliably and even if it does, the benefits of the comp are not realized. Just as an example of making major with a 115 9MM, 1400 FPS is required and that ain't no slouch.
     

  41. Nothing. As a personal experiment I threw a couple of hand full of full power SD loads in my box of IDPA ammo and mixed it in. I use a cardboard box that holds several hundred lose rounds. So when I was loading up my mags I didn't have a clue which bullet was which. The only difference I noticed was some were louder than the others. My opinion is practice and repetition are important than the power factor of your ammo.

    Not to mention that the lighter ammo is going to be a lot easier on your joints. Do you want to be like jack and have to get the butler help you walk across the room? I don't have a butler. Who would open my beer?
     
  42. Why not? If a mousefart load is more accurate than a "standard" load guess which one I am going to use.
     
  43. Speaking as an IDPA shooter, I recall saying pretty much the same thing when I started. Just wanted to practice with my normal carry gear -and IDPA is very well suited to let folks do that- but there came a clear point when I wanted to compete as well as possible. What surprised me is how going down that path improved my overall shooting.

    My ability to draw and hit quickly with my normal carry gear (G27 worn IWB) is light years faster and more accurate nowadays because I got the bug to compete -even though my competition gear is a G34/G35 with tailored gamer loads. Without those competitive juices, I'd still just be a guy shooting a few practice rounds every other month at the match.
     
  44. Does fun need a justification?
     
  45. +1 MarkTX

    Same senario for me too... to the OP your comment on competing with yourself is sound, however flawed in the sense that competitive shooting is a game and diciplines are different.
    I routinely am corrected by SO's and the more experiance shooters at our matches. The standard comment is "you have obviously been trained in SD combat shooting, but this is different if you want to save time do this".... My point is competitive shooting will make you a better SD shooter in most cases anyways but without a reference as to how you are improving, seeing improvement is difficult at best. You need to get in the ranks and compare yourself to others, every match is different, every stage is different... how can you possibly shoot one match last month then the next one saying you shot it better based on your own score, if you don't know how others did and where you stand in the pack?
     
  46. +1

    Sometimes I like to shoot just for fun. .38 Special 148 gr wad cutter at 600-700 FPS is fun to shoot. It's also very cheap to shoot when I cast my own bullets from scrap lead. Just the cost of primers and powder which makes my hand loads about as cheap to shoot as a .22LR.

    I like casting my own bullets and my lead source is very pure soft lead. That means you can't push the bullets too fast or they lead the barrel like crazy and makes it a lot of work to clean.

    So mouse fart loads are fun to shoot, and when using soft cast bullets are almost mandatory.


    No it doesn't.
     
  47. No, I don't practice with my ears off. The reason is that I value the hearing I still have far more than the training benefit I might gain by practicing without hearing protection.


    Interesting.

    I've found that the accuracy of my followup shots with my .40 S&W is noticeably different than with my 9mm, because the recoil characteristics are so different. It takes more time for me to come back on target with the .40 than with the 9mm.

    I don't understand how that isn't a factor in your performance. Maybe I'm just "special". :crying:

    Fortunately, I have the choice, and as reloaders we can always change our load whenever we want.
     
  48. FWIW, recoil characteristics can be tuned with different recoil springs. I've ran most all of them and for my range Glocks, I happen to prefer the 15 LB springs in 9MM, .40 and .45. I leave the OEM springs in my carry weapons...no special reason, just no reason to change them.

    And that's the salient point and what makes the sport great. How boring it would be is we all loaded the same way...if we did, this forum probably would cease to exist.
     
  49. I don't doubt there's a difference between 9mm an 40S&W. My experience was between a lighter 9mm (not total MF), vs a regular power 9mm (factory ammo).

    Of course you're special, you're an engineer. :supergrin:

    And that's why I enjoy reloading. I can tailor my round to what I want, and not have to settle for a WWB type load.
     
  50. Once again Jack very eloquently put.
    For the once that still think that they need too practice with full power loads. Just think of a time when you had a high adrenaline rush. Then double that felling. That is what is going on at that time.
    Yes you practice for that OOO S$#% situation. Unless you have ever been in that situation you have no idea what you well or well not do. All you can do is just pray that if that situation does happen that you do the right thing. And all the practice you have done kicks in. The recoil of the gun at that time has no bearing on the situation.