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local trouble maker
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Makes no sense to use underpowered loads for defensive training purposes....what happens if you actually have to use full power +P self defense ammo :dunno:

Nothing. As a personal experiment I threw a couple of hand full of full power SD loads in my box of IDPA ammo and mixed it in. I use a cardboard box that holds several hundred lose rounds. So when I was loading up my mags I didn't have a clue which bullet was which. The only difference I noticed was some were louder than the others. My opinion is practice and repetition are important than the power factor of your ammo.

Not to mention that the lighter ammo is going to be a lot easier on your joints. Do you want to be like jack and have to get the butler help you walk across the room? I don't have a butler. Who would open my beer?
 

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NO BRASS FOR U!
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Why not? If a mousefart load is more accurate than a "standard" load guess which one I am going to use.
 

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... I haven't shot competition, yet, and I'm considering it, but I don't think I'd care too much about whether or not my shooting was better or worse than someone else's so much as whether or not it's improving over time. My competition in that case would be myself, and I'd be using a full power load so that the experience of shooting in competition and the (heaven forbid it should ever be needed) experience of shooting in the real world will be the same. As has been said, your real-world performance will sink to your training, and I expect the recoil characteristics of the training will matter, even if only a little...
Speaking as an IDPA shooter, I recall saying pretty much the same thing when I started. Just wanted to practice with my normal carry gear -and IDPA is very well suited to let folks do that- but there came a clear point when I wanted to compete as well as possible. What surprised me is how going down that path improved my overall shooting.

My ability to draw and hit quickly with my normal carry gear (G27 worn IWB) is light years faster and more accurate nowadays because I got the bug to compete -even though my competition gear is a G34/G35 with tailored gamer loads. Without those competitive juices, I'd still just be a guy shooting a few practice rounds every other month at the match.
 

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Jacks #1 Fan
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Speaking as an IDPA shooter, I recall saying pretty much the same thing when I started. Just wanted to practice with my normal carry gear -and IDPA is very well suited to let folks do that- but there came a clear point when I wanted to compete as well as possible. What surprised me is how going down that path improved my overall shooting.

My ability to draw and hit quickly with my normal carry gear (G27 worn IWB) is light years faster and more accurate nowadays because I got the bug to compete -even though my competition gear is a G34/G35 with tailored gamer loads. Without those competitive juices, I'd still just be a guy shooting a few practice rounds every other month at the match.
+1 MarkTX

Same senario for me too... to the OP your comment on competing with yourself is sound, however flawed in the sense that competitive shooting is a game and diciplines are different.
I routinely am corrected by SO's and the more experiance shooters at our matches. The standard comment is "you have obviously been trained in SD combat shooting, but this is different if you want to save time do this".... My point is competitive shooting will make you a better SD shooter in most cases anyways but without a reference as to how you are improving, seeing improvement is difficult at best. You need to get in the ranks and compare yourself to others, every match is different, every stage is different... how can you possibly shoot one match last month then the next one saying you shot it better based on your own score, if you don't know how others did and where you stand in the pack?
 

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Not every facet of shooting is SHTF oriented.
+1

Sometimes I like to shoot just for fun. .38 Special 148 gr wad cutter at 600-700 FPS is fun to shoot. It's also very cheap to shoot when I cast my own bullets from scrap lead. Just the cost of primers and powder which makes my hand loads about as cheap to shoot as a .22LR.

I like casting my own bullets and my lead source is very pure soft lead. That means you can't push the bullets too fast or they lead the barrel like crazy and makes it a lot of work to clean.

So mouse fart loads are fun to shoot, and when using soft cast bullets are almost mandatory.


Does fun need a justification?
No it doesn't.
 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
Do you practice with your ears off? If you're simulating the load, why not simulate other aspects of the environment? Noise can be very disorienting.
No, I don't practice with my ears off. The reason is that I value the hearing I still have far more than the training benefit I might gain by practicing without hearing protection.


I've found that my accuracy is within MOBB with light or heavy loads. I'll shoot the regular loads; but more frequently the lighter ones. Never saw the need to load barn burner loads.
Interesting.

I've found that the accuracy of my followup shots with my .40 S&W is noticeably different than with my 9mm, because the recoil characteristics are so different. It takes more time for me to come back on target with the .40 than with the 9mm.

I don't understand how that isn't a factor in your performance. Maybe I'm just "special". :crying:

Fortunately, I have the choice, and as reloaders we can always change our load whenever we want.
 

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I've found that the accuracy of my followup shots with my .40 S&W is noticeably different than with my 9mm, because the recoil characteristics are so different. It takes more time for me to come back on target with the .40 than with the 9mm.
FWIW, recoil characteristics can be tuned with different recoil springs. I've ran most all of them and for my range Glocks, I happen to prefer the 15 LB springs in 9MM, .40 and .45. I leave the OEM springs in my carry weapons...no special reason, just no reason to change them.

Fortunately, I have the choice, and as reloaders we can always change our load whenever we want.
And that's the salient point and what makes the sport great. How boring it would be is we all loaded the same way...if we did, this forum probably would cease to exist.
 

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I've found that the accuracy of my followup shots with my .40 S&W is noticeably different than with my 9mm, because the recoil characteristics are so different. It takes more time for me to come back on target with the .40 than with the 9mm.

I don't understand how that isn't a factor in your performance. Maybe I'm just "special". :crying:

Fortunately, I have the choice, and as reloaders we can always change our load whenever we want.
I don't doubt there's a difference between 9mm an 40S&W. My experience was between a lighter 9mm (not total MF), vs a regular power 9mm (factory ammo).

Of course you're special, you're an engineer. :supergrin:

And that's why I enjoy reloading. I can tailor my round to what I want, and not have to settle for a WWB type load.
 

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Once again Jack very eloquently put.
For the once that still think that they need too practice with full power loads. Just think of a time when you had a high adrenaline rush. Then double that felling. That is what is going on at that time.
Yes you practice for that OOO S$#% situation. Unless you have ever been in that situation you have no idea what you well or well not do. All you can do is just pray that if that situation does happen that you do the right thing. And all the practice you have done kicks in. The recoil of the gun at that time has no bearing on the situation.
 

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I think part of the confusion here is what exactly is a mousefart load? I'm loading 124gr bullets either at starting load or 0.1 gr higher, depending on who's data you go by. It's a PF of 131. That's still good enough to reliably make minor and I'm not screwing around with lighter springs or milling out the slide to lighten it. This load functions reliably in all my 9mm Glocks. Recoil is very noticeably milder than typical 115gr factory ammo.
 

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...I'll only change springs to increase tension to accomodate hotter loads for my pistols. I laugh when I see these "racegun" matches. These guns are barely cycling. I wanna see these boys shoot standard loads or even defence type loads, - that'll be fun to see....:rofl:

They would dominate with ANY load the match required. That's what competitive shooters do -they read the rules and go practice a bagillion times until they win. What most of us are trying to point out in this thread is that whatever competition you get into that will make you practice sight alignment and trigger control -will make you a much, much better shooter with your chosen carry gun (particularly if it an action pistol sport).

BTW, I'm not sure what "racegun" match you're watching -but I seriously doubt their guns "barely cycle". It would be a formula for disaster in a match where time is a factor.

Also, speaking of the Glock pistol, you don't really need to increase recoil spring tension for hot loads. The stock spring setup and the Glock design can handle the hottest loads the caliber in question can dish out. All you do with a stiffer recoil spring is make the perception of recoil worse on the shooter.
 

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A stiffer spring makes the brass easier to find. I use stiffer springs on the range and stock when I carry. 3.2 Bullseye with a 180LFP in 40SW with a Beretta 96 with a +2# spring makes all the brass land in the same spot about 6' away.
 

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I used to firmly believe that; but not any more. I tend to subscribe to the Shotgunred theory. Get the sight picture right, get the trigger squeeze right and everything else is after the fact. I find I shoot better with lighter loads (not necessarily mouse farts). Recovery is better, follow up shots are better. I still shoot the regular loads, and I don't see any difference in my targets between light and regular loads. So, I'll load cheaper loads, and shoot more.

On the other hand, the person who shoots on box of SD loads a year really hasn't trained either. Same question to you as to KC. Just curious, to you also practice with your ears off? Noise can be very disorienting (expecially indoors).

I actually do practice with ears off and from a draw, I have a membership at a private range and only glasses are required...which I wear everyday anyway, anything else goes at my range (rapid fire, draws, double-taps, etc).

Loading to minimum spec is good for saving money or for those people that try to get a backdoor advantage during shooting competitions.
 

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I actually do practice with ears off and from a draw, I have a membership at a private range and only glasses are required...which I wear everyday anyway, anything else goes at my range (rapid fire, draws, double-taps, etc).

Loading to minimum spec is good for saving money or for those people that try to get a backdoor advantage during shooting competitions.

Sure you practice without ears...but how often? Every round? I agree it could be a good thing to do every once in a great while. However, if you were to do so all the time... such in my case only as an example shooting 1200 rounds a month. You'd be deaf :shocked:

As for your comment on getting the backdoor advantage... if that is the case then every single top shooter in the world is a farce and really can't do what they do.... cause they all reload and pretty much all to a point above the minmum power factors in thier respected divisions.
 

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After reloading for alittle over 30 years, I do not own a handgun that I don't have three loads for. Equal to factory loads ( or as close as I can safely get) 3/4 loads that would be 50-75 FPS below factory and mild 100+below factory. most are in the 3/4 range and seem to be the most accurate. +p, no thanks buy a bigger gun!!! :cool:
 

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Practice without ears?

Do you also intentionally crash your car once a year to make sure your seat belts, airbags, and reflexes work? If not, how do you know how you'll perform in a crash?

That may be sarcasm, but I suspect you're much more likely to be in an auto accident than a gun fight (unless you're in law enforcement...then its probably similar odds).
 

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Practice shooting with out eye and ear protection in my option is just plain stupid. You are not proving anything by doing so. Other than working faster in getting hearing aids. Read post #38 by GioaJack.
 

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Practice shooting with out eye and ear protection in my option is just plain stupid. You are not proving anything by doing so. Other than working faster in getting hearing aids. Read post #38 by GioaJack.
+1. I might add that in past years, people didn't recognize the dangers that most of us do today. I've got those pesky crickets in my ears 24/7 to prove it.
 
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