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Featured Why isn't the G33 the perfect carry gun?

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by -JCN-, Aug 4, 2017.

  1. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    My first firearm was a G26 and I still love it. So do a lot of GT'ers. It's a great blend of size, shootability and capacity in a 9mm.

    Since that initial purchase, I've gone up and I've gone down in the carry collection. Up when I could off body or OWB carry a G20 (10mm) or Shield 45 and down when I could only pocket or deep concealed IWB carry 22 WMR, single stack 380 and 9mms (NAA Mini, G42, PM9, Kimber Micro, G43, Shield9).

    I'm asking the GT brain trust to double check my thoughts (knowing the answer is "buy more guns").

    If the G26 (9mm) is a great choice for self defense, why isn't the G33 (357 sig) better?

    1. G33 is the same form factor as the G26 with 9+1 instead of 10+1
    2. The 357 Sig with Underwood loaded Gold Dots is 1475 fps / 604 ME vs the hottest loaded 9mm +P+ Underwood Gold Dots 1300 fps / 465 ME.
    3. In my head it's kind of like an easier to carry G29-lite, but better than a 9mm.
    Question for those in the know:
    Can I use the G20 (10mm) magazines as an extended magazine for a G33 when using 357 Sig?

    Of course in posting this, I couldn't resist and ordered some 357 sig ammo and a G33.... :D

    And a chronograph...

    And planning my next gel and barrier testing at the range....

    It doesn't end, does it? :D
     
  2. Phelen_Kell

    Phelen_Kell

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    Why not just buy Glock 32 or 31 magazines (or 23 or 22) to use as extended magazines? They work just fine.

    I love the 33.

    The primary reasons people give for not doing the 33 or 357sig for that matter is:
    1. Ammo costs too much (no it doesn't)
    2. Recoil is harsh (no it isn't)
    3. It's too fat (no it isn't)

    If you're going to carry the 26 or 27, you might as well upgrade to the 33. But if you're going to carry the 33, you might as well carry the 32, or the 31. You see where this is going. You might as well buy the 31 and 33 while you're at it.

    My brother is crazy into 357sig, he bought a gen4 35 MOS and told me to get rid of the .40 barrel. Never bothered to shoot it, he stuck in a 357 barrel as soon as he walked out of the store.
     

  3. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    The G20 mags won't fit the G33.

    The reason the G33 is not "better" to me as a carry piece is recoil. If you think of recoil in terms of "too harsh" or "not too harsh", I believe you are missing the point. Recoil costs time when you are trying to accurately put rounds on target as rapidly as possible.

    While "training up" to a more capable load is a valid pursuit, in the end, given a GM capable shooter, the G26 will out score the G33 every single time. That score is a valid metric of the likelihood of being alive or dead, when all is said and done. Of course, if you find yourself needing to shoot through barriers, the G33's increased recoil might be considered a virtue... :)
     
  4. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    I'm not a Glock fan but bought a G33 because of, first the caliber, and the price (a fellow wanted $350 for the brand new gun).

    I have several 357 SIG cal pistols and would carry them if they fit my carry options.

    If it was a choice of carrying the G26 (I have one) and the G33, I'd carry the G33.

    Glock 33.jpg
     
  5. SK2344

    SK2344

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  6. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    Great points! Bummer on the G20 magazines.

    Re: recoil and effectiveness, I guess there is a trade off of recoil and speed / accuracy of follow up shots.

    Where you balance that trade off is operator and application dependent, I think.

    Because otherwise we would all carry G42s!

    9mm may be the sweet spot and I'm comfortable with the single stacks that I have.

    But as a "little more oomph" pistol that might be capable of barrier penetration if there is an Aurora-style attack is attractive to me in certain situations. In a close range defense scenario, I would like to test if it's "good enough" to make A-zone doubles at speed at 7 yards. Sure, I might be more accurate with a 9mm, but that doesn't help me in an Aurora situation where more accuracy still doesn't stop the threat.

    I'm curious to barrier test the super light, super fast Underwood XD in 357 Sig (2100 fps 65gr round).

    I feel I'm acceptably accurate and fast with self defense range shots with my Shield 45. A G33 might nicely replace the Shield in rotation, being easier to carry and having better penetration while still delivering a lot of energy to target.
     
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  7. Locust414

    Locust414

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    ^^^This. I agree.

    I bought a G31 and G33 thinking since the 33 is same as my 26 I might like it for carry. NOPE. I DO NOT. I put both those guns away. The 33 is way to snappy. I can shoot my 26 much faster than the 33 because the 33 is soooo snappy.
     
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  8. Chowser

    Chowser

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    I have not tried that 65gr round. Out of my duty weapon (gen4 31) we have shot into cars, out of cars (includes windshields), through house doors, into soft and hard body armor, and into bank bullet resistant windows. We were happy with the caliber.

    Qual scores and accuracy went up when we switched from the 22 to the 31. Recoil impulse is different. I stopped carrying my 33 off duty and switched to the 32. The four extra rounds is nice.

    It's been almost twenty years with 357SIG and I don't plan on switching.
     
  9. timmay

    timmay

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    The 33 is my primary choice, with a 32 mag or two as backup. The recoil is "sharper", but I find it very controllable. Not much muzzle climb, I would imagine because of the increased slide speed. Definitely not as "flippy" as 40, for me anyway. Felt recoil is subjective. I can run it faster than 40, but not quite as fast as 9. However I prefer it's performance over 9, 40, or 45. That said my 26, and increasingly often, my CM9 also get carried. It's nice to have choices.
     
  10. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    There is definitely a sweet spot and it probably is different for every single user, their needs and perceptions. One thing I think is really helpful (I know it is for you as well, so you will get to the bottom of it for you) are objective metrics, looking down at the shot timer while inspecting your hits and misses is very instructive.

    I sure am glad I am not deciding what caliber and gun my large agency is going to standardize on, that seems to be about as no win a job as Communications Director for Donald Trump.. ;)
     
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  11. Nunya Business

    Nunya Business

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  12. G26Mikey

    G26Mikey

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    Nice shooting.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. Wizzz

    Wizzz

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    I have both the gen3 33 and 32, but the 357sig jhp ammo just never fed well for me. They jam at times even with polished feed ramps, and good mags. I shoot .40 and 9mm fine with different conversion barrels on them though. Recoil is not bad, and I'm just as accurate like other pistols.
     
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  14. Mike-M

    Mike-M

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    Underwood rates most of their .357SIG 125gr JHP rounds at 1475 fps muzzle velocity. These numbers appear to be very slightly conservative for cartridges fired from a 4-inch barrel. Here is what I measure from UW 125gr JHP at 85 F ambient:

    G31 4.5-inch -> MV=1565 fps, ME=680 ft-lbf, PF=196
    G33 3.4-inch -> MV=1410 fps, ME=552 ft-lbf, PF=176

    The relative recoil effects of various loads in similar pistols are best characterized by the bullet's muzzle momentum (PF, power factor), although it ignores exhaust gas contributions to recoil. The UW in my G33 produces a PF of 176. The following loadings (if practical) would produce identical recoil characteristics (PF=176) in these almost identical pistols:

    G26 -> 147gr bullet requires MV=1200 fps -> ME=470 ft-lbf
    G27 -> 180gr bullet requires MV=980 fps -> ME=384 ft-lbf
    G33 -> 125gr bullet requires MV=1410 fps -> ME=552 ft-lbf
    G39 -> 230gr bullet requires MV=770 fps -> ME=303 ft-lbf

    Heavier bullets always produce lower muzzle energy for the same PF/recoil in similar pistols.

    The .357SIG in a G33 has a number of superior attributes when compared to the other Glock subcompacts:

    1. Better bullet velocity and energy for same recoil (above).
    2. Flatter trajectory due to greater velocity.
    3. Tight chamber, with 100-percent cartridge case support even above feed ramp...best of all Glock pistols.
    4. Cartridge reputation for accuracy.
    5. Easy, simple, Glock-sanctioned conversion to .40SW with only an OEM .40SW barrel, should circumstances require it.

    The only downside to a .357SIG pistol is the audible blast. One will never be wearing hearing protection in real-world SD situations, so one's hearing WILL be damaged from such use. But...the G26, G42, and even LCP will hurt too.

    It is a fool's complaint about ammo costs for a serious self-defense weapon. UW premium .357SIG ammo, for example, is often less expensive per round than, say, Hornady "Critical Defense" in .380ACP!

    The advantages of the G33 for SD easily surpass the other Glock subcompacts. I am unaware of any competitor pistol from Glock, or others, that offers so much in such a small package...same size as a G26. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  15. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Recoil, cost/availability, blast/noise, lower capacity. Only each person can decide if an extra 150 fps or so is worth it. The bullets are otherwise identical for all practical purposes although you do have more flexibility in ammo selection with the 9mm.
     
  16. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Are you saying Underwood's 357 Sig ammo is less expensive than Underwood's .380 ammo?
     
  17. powernoodle

    powernoodle

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    Crank off a Glock 33 in an enclosed space, like a vehicle, kitchen or elevator, and you are likely to damage your hearing. As someone whose ears ring every waking moment from having abused them earlier in life, this is no joke. I'll stick with something that can alter someone's behavior, but leave my hearing largely intact.
     
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  18. Mike-M

    Mike-M

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    Er..only if Underwood makes Hornady "Critical Defense", which was the ONLY .380ACP round that I mentioned. :)
     
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  19. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    The flatter shooting argument is silly. A difference of 150 fps isn't going to make much difference. It's a difference of like an inch or two @ 100 yards, far less than the accuracy of any shooter or even the mechanical accuracy of the pistol.
     
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  20. dubito

    dubito

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    I don't own a G26, and I have no intention of getting one. I usually carry a G27, and I'm not immune to a "snappy" gun/ammo combination. For a long time, I've been toying with the idea of getting a G32 or G33 because of others' favorable experience with the flat-shooting .357 Sig.