Why is it so hard to admit Atheism is a Religion?

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Cavalry Doc, Nov 7, 2010.

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  1. Ogreon

    Ogreon unlisted

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    Does the "not" collector hate the fact that stamp collecting exists? Is he worried about all the stamp collectors out there? Does he troll stamp collecting web discussions? Does he flip out when he hears people discussing their stamps? Does he post nasty reviews of stamp collecting books on Amazon?

    If any of these things apply, then "not" collecting stamps is a hobby.
     
  2. bleedingshrimp

    bleedingshrimp

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    An explanation of one's existence is NOT a requirement of Atheism. We can think we came from pea pods on Neptune or we can decide that the origin of our existence is unknowable and therefore unimportant to our lives. Irregardless, as long as we don't have a belief in a god or gods...we are Atheist. You see how that works? Atheism is not an instruction book and it does not seek to define, expand, or expound upon anything else (evolution, origin of the planet, molecular biology). It's a definition, and despite your attempts at redefinition...it remains previously defined.
     

  3. void *

    void * Dereference Me!

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    Please provide proof for your implied assertion that all atheists hate the fact that theism exists. Note: Any proof submitted will immediately have counterexamples offered. (For instance, I don't hate the concept of theism - I just don't think it's supported by evidence - and pointing that out is not hate, it's just a matter of expressing a viewpoint).

    Please provide proof for your implied assertion that all atheists are worried about all theists. Note: Any proof submitted will immediately have counterexamples offered (For example, I am worried about theists who would like to see theocracies. The rest, I have no issue with unless they take, say, criminal action. But this is not a worry about *all* theists. My mother is a theist, the high school buddy I see the most is a theist - on and on and on - and I have no worries at all about them)

    Please provide proof for your implied assertion that all atheists troll theist web discussions. Note that any such proof will immediately have counterexamples offered (For instance, I enjoy discussion about such things, and I tend to respond to statements I don't agree with. Is that trolling? I don't think so - if you do a forum search you'll note I tend to stay out of the theological discussions)

    Etc, etc.

    Even if we accept the idea that the above actions result in a hobby (see below), to call "Atheism" a religion, by the analogy, you need to show that all atheists engage in them. Similarly, if we're going to define 'religion' by actions such as trolling boards, etc, we would need to show that all theists engage in them. This is quite obviously not the case.

    Also, in a strict sense, none of the things you list is actually a hobby. They are all opinions/actions/etc *towards* a hobby. The person making them still does *not* collect stamps, so you can't call such a person a stamp collector.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2010
  4. 075vrAHwA

    075vrAHwA

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    Is this really what you think atheists are all about?


    :rofl:
     
  5. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Actually, from my perspective, it is you that is being stubborn. Atheism for many is not a passive refusal to believe in something, it is an active believe in something. The passive ones have not been in this thread defending it, the active ones have.

    You actively believe that there is no god, whether you choose to admit it or not. I am not making that up, you have actively stated so in this thread.

    Do not deny your belief, embrace it. If you believe that there is no god, and you are willing to defend it with reason and logic, I have no problem with that. The denial is simply not necessary.


    It's not any different than a Christian stating that they simply do not believe that Jesus is not the Son of God. Is that fellow religious? Yup, he is. Just think about that for a minute or two before you respond. REALLY think about it.


    Stating a belief in passive voice doesn't change the belief. If you are really sure, a "gnostic/athiest", then...........
     
  6. kjm1016

    kjm1016

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    I have known a great many people who believed obsessively & passionately in many things. That didn't make their beliefs a religion. Look at sports fans. Some of them act like their favorite team is the One True Faith! It may look that way but that don't make it so. Just because NFL fans treat their sport like a religion don't make it one. I know UFOlogists (i.e., people who REALLY believe in space aliens) who I keep expecting to kneel and face Roswell before praying to whatever. I've encountered people who would practically allow themselves to be martyred before admitting there was no second gunman on the grassy knoll. These may sound like religions, but they're not. I have found the silly and down right specious arguments presented here to be psuedo-intellectual at best. The lack of religious belief is a religion? That's ridiculous! Isn't that like saying the lack of evidence is itself evidence of something as the loony conspiracy theorists so often contend? This is something that should've been wrapped up quickly and not taken up five pages of pointless discourse.

    On the other hand, CavDoc, maybe you're onto something. Maybe it's time to found the first atheist church! Whadaya say? You could be the first atheist Pope. Tax-free status from the Federal government! Yeah, Yeah, that's the ticket! I could be the first atheist Pastor. What DO you think, Doc?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2010
  7. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    I have not told you what you think, I think. I've simply pointed out that just like any other, a strongly held belief system that seeks to explain the basis of existence, is a religion. I still don't understand why it's so hard to admit that atheism is a religion. If you were truly a passive non-believer, why are you so virulent in defending the belief?


    Atheism may be right, it may be wrong, and I can live with that.
    But I also still believe that it does actually fit the definition of a religion.


    Just my own humble opinion, backed up by common definitions of common words.:wavey:
     
  8. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Of course you are correct. Not ALL atheists are actively pursuing the religious, showing bad manners and intolerance, but there are quite a lot of them around these parts.


    I started this thread when one of the atheistic faithful participated in a drive by troll attack. It struck me as odd, that this fellow thought that his religion required him to show intolerance and bad manners toward all others.


    In the USA, it seems as if the Atheists focus their anti-religious bias preferentially against the predominant religion. That would be a good research project, to see if the same is true for atheists in predominantly Hindu, Buddhist, or Muslim countries.


    :dunno:
     
  9. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    That would be funny. Me standing in front of a crowd of thousands, wearing whatever atheist priests wear, and telling them, "hell, for all I know, you are all wrong, but then again you may be right."



    The difference between a firmly held belief in a sports team or the second gunman on the grassy knoll, is that both are minuscule trivia.


    For most, a religion seeks to explain the basic foundation of existence, which atheism does.
     
  10. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    :cool: Best answer so far, IMHO.
     
  11. RC-RAMIE

    RC-RAMIE

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    No it doesn't atheism just says I don't think the god answer is right atheism does not try to prove or explain anything

    You do know he was saying your argument is BS
     
  12. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Then explain what evidence you have that God does not exist.

    But he was polite about it. He made a statement that did not include ad homs.
     
  13. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    And so how does a lack of belief in god translate to me claiming to understand the existence of the universe?

    All atheism is to me, is the act of dismissing that which is patently ridiculous.
     
  14. 075vrAHwA

    075vrAHwA

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    Such a simple concept, but he's already decided that atheists think what he wants them to and the truth is irrelevant. Pretty sad.
     
  15. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    I am polite as I can be while, basically, letting it be known that I consider religion to be a myth.

    While there isn't much I can do about my belief, or lack thereof, theres no reason to be nasty about it either.

    Besides Doc, your one of my favorite folks on PI:wavey:
     
  16. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Simply not believing what others believe is an act of contrarianism, not atheism.


    A lack of belief in a deity, is a belief system. If not a deity, what explains the nature of the universe.

    Stating it passively, does not change the active belief necessary to come to that conclusion.

    Do you believe that deity's exist, or not, or do you simply not know. If you are sure that no god exists, how do you explain your existence. If you have a fairly detailed explanation of how you came to be typing your response, then there is an underlying belief system.


    The firm belief that there is no god, without any proof, requires faith, and is a form of religious belief.
     
  17. RC-RAMIE

    RC-RAMIE

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    Why do I have to give evidence showing there is no god when people who says god exist can not give evidence for it?

    I will give you the same level of evidence that I see proving a god.

    http://www.400monkeys.com/God/
     
  18. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    I'm trying to point out to you, that if you really, REALLY believe that there is no god, and you can support that belief with an argument, that it is more than simply not believing that there is no god. You must have a system of beliefs that explain reality without involving a deity.


    Denial is what I am seeing here. Atheists are very uncomfortable admitting that their belief system can accurately be described as a religion.

    I don't mind being told that I don't know for sure how we got here. But I believe that you don't know for sure either. Neither do people that admit their faith. You have your opinion, and I have mine. Yours does not hurt me, and mine does not hurt you.
     
  19. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Then maybe you're really an agnostic instead of an atheist?
     
  20. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    Well, I have been called contrary. But simply not accepting a particular belief is contrarianism? Then we ALL are ... contriasts?


    How can lack of belief in a particular belief system become a belief system?

    Makes no sense to me.

    I have no idea what explains the nature of the universe. But I'm reasonably sure the answer wont be found in mythologies.


    Active belief in what.... precisely?

    Again, disbelieving one thing does not necessitate belief in another thing. My beliefs are subject to change without notice. And belief isnt a necessity to religion. Faith is.

    And I have very little faith in anything.

    I do not believe in deity's. Why? Never seen, heard, smelled or touched one. When there is no proof that something exists, the only reasonable, logical conclusion is that it does not.

    Isn't a question of belief.




    Faith has.....less than nothing to do with it.

    So many things that are fictional dont have the slightest proof of existence. Yet it isnt faith that leads me to THINK they dont exist.

    It's reason and logic.
     
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