Why does my gun move after pulling the trigger(dry fire)?

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by B_RAD, Oct 17, 2010.

  1. B_RAD

    B_RAD

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    I just want to make clear. This only happens with this specific G17.
    I have a G17RTF2 that have the following mods:

    0.25 trigger job

    Scherer "-" connector

    Wolf competition spring pack.(6lb trigger spring, 4lb reduced power striker spring and reduced power firing pin block spring)

    The rest of the gun is stock.

    When I dry fire I notice that after the trigger breaks the front of the gun twithces to the right a little. I don't really know how else to explain this. It's not much but I do notice it and it drives me crazy! I don't notice this when using the stock connector in this gun or any of my other Glocks all of which are stock. Also, I did this same mod a while back to another G17 that I had and it did not do this. Also, I can dry fire all my other pistols (1911, S&W 629 etc..) without this happening. I thought this was due to the striker slamming forward but now I'm thinking it's the trigger bar breaking over the connector. I guess my question or questions are:

    1)Has anyone else noticed this with a similar set up?

    2)Do you think this is due to the "-" connector?

    3)Could it be that it didn't do this on my other G17 because no two are alike.

    4)Do you think this could affect accuracy no matter how small? I want all the accuracy I can get. I've always thought that any movement could affect accuracy.

    5)Finally, If you've noticed this same issue do you know of a solution?


    Please refrain from posting any negative comments if you do not agree with these mods. Just looking for helpful insight.


    Thanks,

    B_RAD
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  2. Ogie

    Ogie

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    It is because you are not pulling the trigger straight back. Honest, it is.
     

  3. texas 48

    texas 48 Gold Member

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    Ogies correct in addition you are squeezing the grip to hard.
     
  4. B_RAD

    B_RAD

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    I have to disagree. I'm not new to glocks. Not that that means anything I'm just saying that I'm confident I'm pulling the trigger straight back and not gripping to hard. I just lined up my G26, G19 and the G17 in question and dry fired each. The 17 is the only one with any after market parts. The 19 and the 26 do not do the same thing. I will look at my grip again when dry firing but I find it hard to believe that it's me. I'll admit that I don't want to admit it either but in the quest for great shooting I'll be subjective and admit if I find I'm wrong.
     
  5. Adam5

    Adam5

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    Are you pulling the trigger the same way that you do on the stock Glocks? If so, you are pulling it too hard on the Glock with the lighter trigger.
     
  6. BamaTrooper

    BamaTrooper Private side

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    Well the trigger moves straight back, the firing pin goes straight back, soooo........

    Once the connector does its job and disengages the trigger and firing pin, you have a little jump, no biggie.
     
  7. B_RAD

    B_RAD

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    Ok. So I couldn't wait. I just dry fired some more. I'm even more sure it's not something I'm doing. Like I said, I don't have this problem with any other Glock I own or the other G17 I did the same mods to. Also, I've dry fired a friends Glock that has a Vanek kit and didn't have this problem. The only other gun I've had this issue with was a M&P Pro9. I just thought it was the way that gun worked. I sold it because I could never get the trigger pull to stop doing this. I had the previous G17 with these mods at the same time and it was perfect. I know when I hear someone explain a problem they're having the first thing I think is user error but I'm confident it's not me. I am pulling the trigger straight back and I'm not gripping the gun too hard. I'm not doing anything differently with this gun than I do with the others. I do appreciate the comments so far. Now, please humor me and let's assume it's not user error.
     
  8. B_RAD

    B_RAD

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    P


    I'm focussing in the front sight while pulling the trigger straight back. It's. It moving until the trigger breaks. Then it twitches ever so slightly to the right. If it was me then the sight would be moving before the trigger breaks. If it's the stiker jumping then why don't I have this problem with the others?

    I'm not disareeing with you, I'm just think outloud.
     
  9. bentbiker

    bentbiker

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    I think your goal should be to be objective. Could it be that the longer sight radius of the G17 makes a slight movement more obvious to you?

    When dry firing, the connector never disconnects from the trigger bar. That only happens when the slide cycles to the rear.

    Do any of your other guns have overtravel stops? They can help stop motion at time of trigger break.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  10. B_RAD

    B_RAD

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    Yes. I am pulling the trigger the same way on all. Though, I don't think I'm pulling it to hard on the lighter trigger or on any of them. I've tried taking up slack and consistently pulling back until the trigger breaks. It jumps. I've tried taking up the slack and quickly pulling the trigger. It jumps. I've tried pulling the trigger slack and all in one even/squeezing motion it. It jumps. I can do all of these on ever other gun I have with no movement at all.

    Again, thanks for all the comments so far. I know what y'all are thinking. "It's something this guy is doing. He just won't admit it". I really don't think so. I will be shooting in a IDPA league Monday night. I'll see if I can get any of the other shooters to recreate this phenomenon?
     
  11. B_RAD

    B_RAD

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    Good question. Though I don't think that's it. When I put the stock connector in this gun the problem is gone. So, either it's a gun/trigger bar/connector combo issue OR it's all in my head? I know we see what we want to see or don't want to see sometimes.
     
  12. B_RAD

    B_RAD

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    I was dry firing someones two Glocks the oher day. One was his G34 and the other was his wifes G34. Both had the same drop in kit from Vanek(both were installed by Mr. Vanek) and there was a difference between the two. I asked if one was the grand master and if the other was the classic? He said nope. Same one. Charlie had told him that tolerances varied from gun to gun. I would assume that the same thing goes for anything such as the trigger bar and connectors?
     
  13. Graves

    Graves Diesel Junky

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    No, he's not. I've noticed this with Glocks too; you can see the slide move up from the frame when you dry fire it w/o a mag inserted. All it is is the load on the FP taking up the up/down play on the glock (yes they do have a bit of slop - no biggie IMO), but this isn't a big concern with a mag inserted as the tension from the mag spring will take the slack up.
     
  14. bentbiker

    bentbiker

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    Note the edits I was making to my original post while you were responding.
     
  15. B_RAD

    B_RAD

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    Thank you. I knew I wasn't crazy. Or at least not imaging this. I may be crazy for letting this bother me. Hopefully I didn't point out something that will bother anyone else. I did put a mag in and it's still doing it. I also put in snap caps to see if the round against the bottom of the slide and the striker hitting the rubber primer would solve this. Nope!


    I will say that I love this G17RTF2!
     
  16. B_RAD

    B_RAD

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    They do not. They are untouched stock.
     
  17. Graves

    Graves Diesel Junky

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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  18. SouthernBoyVA

    SouthernBoyVA

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    With the mods you've done to your G17, the trigger pull weight should come in somewhere around 3 pounds. This would normally reduce movement of the gun rather than increase or cause it since less pressure is needed to release the striker. The parts themselves will have no effect, or virtually no effect, on the gun moving during or after firing (dry firing in your case). This leaves the user to be the culprit.

    Make sure your hold is solid (as in correct for the gun and you), get a good sight picture, and then practice some dry firing. Then place a dime on the front of the slide just behind the front sight and dry fire the gun. If the dime moves, your gun moves. But then again, you already know this because that is your question: what is making the gun move?

    When dry firing, there is nothing mechanical within the gun that is moving, save for the components connected to the trigger and those which are affected by the trigger components' movement. A 4 pound striker spring will slow the movement of the striker down significantly (I once had one on one of my G23's). The heavier trigger spring will reduce the amount of pressure needed to pull the trigger. And the 3.5 connector reduces the amount of pressure needed to move the cruciform down out of the way of the striker.

    Try this. Get a friend with whom you shoot, preferably one who either owns Glocks or is very familiar with them, and have them dry fire your gun as you closely watch what is happening. Use a video camera if necessary so you can review what took place. See if he has the same experience as you do when dry firing your gun.

    Lastly, all guns are different and create a different feel and fit in individual hands. Perhaps your G17 does not fit you as well as your other Glocks. For example, my primary carry gun is one of my 3G G23's and I do quite a bit of what I refer to as "trigger discipline". I don't have any of the problems with this gun that you have described and it has a Glock 3.5 connector (part #00135), the smooth faced trigger, and a 6 pound GlockParts trigger spring. Neither does my 3G G19 have this problem and it would be more evident on that gun than my G23 because of the aftermarket Warren Tactical sights it has (it also has the same connector and smooth faced trigger as does my G23 but still has the stock 5.5 trigger spring).

    Good luck and take it to the range to see how it acts with live ammo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  19. matt c

    matt c

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    try different pressure on your grip. You hold the gun and you are the one allowing it to move when you compress the trigger. Or like posted earlier, when the firing pin goes off, there is slop in the slide to rail and the whole slide moves. Is it affecting your accuracy?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  20. Butch

    Butch RetiredDinosaur CLM Millennium Member

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    I've not read everything here, so forgive me if someone's already said this, but,

    #1/ The above by SouthernBoyVA pretty much covers my question, have you shot it? If it shoots right, is it a problem?

    #2/ If it stops when you put the original connector back in, the crappy (IMO) Scherer connector would appear to be the cause.....no?