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why did most police stop using the 9mm?any cops here

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by mo.glocker, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. mo.glocker

    mo.glocker

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    why did alot of dept stop using the 9mm round,im debating on trading my nib g23 my son in law just bought a g19 and they say you should train with what you carry and 9 is cheaper?any cops here w/the reason?thanks guys-jeff:wavey:
     
  2. deadday

    deadday

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    There's a whole forum fulla them....
     

  3. ambluemax

    ambluemax

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    most cops do what they are told/issued as pertains to gear they are issued. The decision is made by powers that be in administration who may or may not have practical reasoning for their decisions.

    9mm will kill, but its not secret that there are more powerful rounds. My preference is to carry larger calibers, ymmv. If haveing a 9mm vs a 40 is the difference between you practicing a lot and not so much, get the 9. Far better to be really good with what you shoot than to carry something more powerful and not have the skills to use it.

    Its not the size, its how you use it!
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  4. Zertek

    Zertek

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    ..............
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  5. JBP55

    JBP55

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    Due to the FBI Fiasco in Florida.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  6. maverick9614

    maverick9614

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    bigger holes and better penetration both into a bg and through a car door would be my $.02
     
  7. cyrsequipment

    cyrsequipment Angry

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    I was an LEO firearms Instructor... the general "opinion" is that the 9mm is not adequate, based on what was said earlier regarding the FBI shootout.

    I personally don't have a major problem with carrying a 9mm, but many do because they were told that the 9mm is inadequate.
     
  8. Adjuster

    Adjuster

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    I was an LEO firearms Instructor... the general "opinion" is that the 9mm is not adequate, based on what was said earlier regarding the FBI shootout


    I believe your a day late and a dollar short. The FBI/Florida issue caused the change over from .38 to 9mm.

    Or am I mistaken?? Now I'm confused.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  9. alexcc

    alexcc

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    I also thought this... maybe we're both wrong:dunno:
     
  10. buckshotshorty

    buckshotshorty

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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  11. fuzzy03cls

    fuzzy03cls

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    NYPD still uses it.
     
  12. JBP55

    JBP55

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    Correct.
     
  13. tuica

    tuica

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    Believe the FBI Miami fiasco showed the inadequacy of the 9mm round.
     
  14. MarkMSM

    MarkMSM

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  15. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    Actually, speaking as one who was a cop back then, studied that case in the academy, firearms instructor school, etc., that's when the police started adopting the 9mm, not dumping it. The idea was to have more firepower, although the failure of the 9mm is a major point that fight is icted for these days. Dumping the 9mm happened when the .40 was invented, years after the Miami shootout.
     
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  16. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    You are correct.

    However, that shooting is probably one reason the FBI went to 10mm several years later, for more power. At that time some PDs adopted 10mm, which was the .357 of the new police auto pistols for a couple of years. Then they downloaded 10mm, decided to just shorten the case and make it .40 S&W, and both the 10mm police and the 9mm police settled on the .40 as middle ground.
     
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  17. matteblack

    matteblack

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    It may have showed the inadequacy of the 9mm rounds at the time, specifically the Win Silvertip. 9mm JHP's available now far surpass those early 80's rounds. 9mm is adequate today, suitable for duty.
     
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  18. Seawolf

    Seawolf

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    Actually the Bank of America shootout in LA had more to do with Law Enforcement getting away from the 9mm, but what many forget about that shootout is both the bad guys were covered head to toe in body armor and not even the mighty 45acp would have been very effective in that engagement accept that the good guys might have run out of ammo a lot sooner.

    The Miami shootout caused the FBI to look at alternatives, which lead to the 10mm. Since they realized the 10mm was too big this lead to the 40S&W. Same capacity as the 9mm at the time with a little more power. It was considered the best of both worlds or a middle ground between the 9mm and the 45acp.

    Once the 40S&W started to be used more frequently and more real world data started to show up from shootouts involving Police it was realized that the 40S&W had issues penetrating barriers and still maintaining enough energy to be effective. Since most Police shootouts occur where an Officer may have to shoot through glass or thin metal doors this was a concern.

    Some agencies now have started looking again at the 45acp, but many have stayed with the 40S&W for cost reasons and availability.
    Now with advancements in ammunition design, like the newer bonded ammo, the differences in caliber have become less and less. Bonded ammo penetrates hard barriers easier and still maintains it's shape so it can still penetrate and expand soft targets, but it's expensive and difficult for departments to buy in large quantities.

    Something people don't realize as well is that agencies have to spend a lot of money on training Officers and ammunition. This is a yearly expense so imagine a deaprtment with a couple hundred Officers who are issued 45acp and you can imagine the cost involved in getting them training ammo twice a year to qualify with.

    This debate will never be resolved and the only way you can deal with it is to say each caliber has it's own pros and cons so it's up to the individual to decide what they need.

    The 40S&W doesn't get a lot of credit, but I find it hard to believe all these Police Agencies would use a round like the 40S&W if they thought it was incapable or doing what it was supposed to do. It is still a good middle ground of capacity and power.
     
  19. JBP55

    JBP55

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    Correct and the Florida Fiasco is what caused the FBI to look into adopting another caliber which was first a 10mm and then a .40 and many agencies followed suit.
    The 9mm ammunition is much improved from those days.
     
  20. arclight610

    arclight610

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    I always hear people mention how the 9mm now is much improved over the 9mm cartridge of the past. Can someone enlighten me to how it is specifically? Is it the introduction of better hollowpoints, or was it because it was loaded weak? Just curious.

    I've shot 40's. I personally think the difference between 9mm and 40 is negligable in most real world circumstances.
     
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