Why cops are throwing in the towel.

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by Sgt127, Jun 14, 2020.

  1. GPalmer

    GPalmer CLM

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    I was having this discussion with a friend this week. Dealing with the dregs of society constantly will color your perception. Get the officers out before everyone they are dealing with is being dealt with through the lens of anti-rose colored glasses?
     
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  2. GPalmer

    GPalmer CLM

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    Yes, the hippies went into education because otherwise they would have to work for a living. They perverted the educational system to teach their ideals. Returning these institutions to the work hard and you will succeed bedrock would reduce much of the current issues.
     
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  3. GPalmer

    GPalmer CLM

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    Oh, they'll take the job and turn it into something much worse than it already is. I think we would turn into a third world country in no time flat.
     
  4. PSUEng

    PSUEng

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    I fundamentally agree but I’m questioning who’s side the police are on if that happens.

    Since they work for governors that are allowing this rioting and destruction to continue, will they side with citizens or not? Seems the police sided with governors during this covid scam, writing tickets to people out for a drive, trying to cut hair for a living, etc.
     
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  5. Triple Taps

    Triple Taps

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    Both officers and soldiers pay a high price, but mostly both join. Only soldiers are sometimes drafted. Neither police nor soldier is right for everyone. Certainly not for the faint at heart.


    Both soldiers and police pay a price, and in different ways, some more than others.



    Get insurance for lawsuits if your agency does not provide a legal team to handle them for you. That is an OPTION you have.
    Stay within agency policy, that is one of your protections.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  6. OLY-M4gery

    OLY-M4gery

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    In the order it was posted.

    1) Who on active duty has been drafted into the military? Answer, not one single person. The last draft was December 7, 1972. Agencies are starting to write contracts for new recruits, so that if they quit before a certain time period, they have to pay back their academy costs.

    2) We have police officers, that are National Guard or Reserve members, and they have been deployed. But, to your point, the working nights for 6 years before getting to another shift is stressful to relationships. Same thing with working weekends and holidays.

    3) Yeah, if someone gets a divorce started on deployment, it's because the relationship was bad. But I guess cops could claim they got divorced because they missed kids sporting events, school events, birthdays, anniversaries, family gatherings, for years on end due to their wonky schedules.

    4) We get free will making out services as part of supporting 1st responders, it's a program that has been going on for years. I never made out a will when I was in the Army.

    5) Sure they can quit anytime. After Hurricane Katrina, there were widespread complaints of LEO's being "AWOL". Service members can't sue other service members, or the military. If a civilian sues, say a tank ran over their car and injured them. Guess what, the military is liable for the damages, not the individual soldier, squad leader etc, there's a term for it Q________ I_M______Y - can you guess it? If LEO's screw up at work, they can be disciplined by their employer, demoted, suspended, fired, charged criminally.
     
  7. OLY-M4gery

    OLY-M4gery

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    Part 2

    1) You could have taken out liability insurance but didn't? Is that because of that pesky qualified immunity? Because that is what you are describing. The agency having a legal team, lawsuit fund etc. IS BECAUSE OF QUALIFIED IMMUNITY. The reason your agency's legal team spent hours on legal updates, is because they didn't want to pay out for employee actions. Because if a LEO does something at work, and is within policy, the EMPLOYER is LIABLE not the EMPLOYEE. It's called qualified immunity.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  8. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    That is not qualified immunity. That is called indemnification. That’s where the empoyer covers the cost of the lawsuit for following their policies. Police officers and their departments are sued all the time. Qualified immunity applies to if the officer did their job as a matter of law, they can’t get sued. Example, a woman says she was raped and accused someone. The police arrest him. Later it is determined that she made a mistake. As a matter of law, they can’t be sued. But if the police made an error such as withheld evidence or anything on their part, they can be sued.
     
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  9. OLY-M4gery

    OLY-M4gery

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    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/qualified_immunity

    Qualified immunity only applies to suits against government officials as individuals, not suits against the government for damages caused by the officials’ actions. Although qualified immunity frequently appears in cases involving police officers, it also applies to most other executive branch officials. While judges, prosecutors, legislators, and some other government officials do not receive qualified immunity, most are protected by other immunity doctrines.

    ---------------------

    Indemnification is a part of qualified immunity.

    It's why police departments get sued, not individual officers, in most cases.

    The only time individual officers get sued is if the plaintiff thinks they can prove the officer(s) were acting outside the scope of their authority.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  10. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    Not exactly, individual cops are usually sued with their departments. Now the employer has the option to cover their officer or not, depending if they feel the officer followed their policies or not. In the NYPD, the officer had to fill out a form to request the department to cover them in a lawsuit even if the department was already named in it as well. And they do not always choose to indemnify the officer.
     
  11. 1L26

    1L26

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    A very good friend of mine, since grammar school, started his LEO career in the very early 70s. I started mine in 75 after my time in the Military. He works all the OT he can muster and makes a ton of money, especially for a Police Lieutenant. He is still on the job and at 46+ years of service he shows no signs of retiring and living the life he is more than financially set up for.

    The lure to an LEO career was very strong for both of us as kids but, I chose to hang it up in 2015. I know one day I'll get a call saying my friend was found in the Watch Commander's Office 10-10.

    I said all that to say this:

    I think there should be a mandatory retirement age for Public Safety personnel. As we reach the end of a long career some of us know and will admit that we can no longer fight with the young thugs on the street. The CalPERS 3% @50 retirement plan was great (for those that don't know: that plan basically gave you 90% of your salary for 30 years of service). My friend is way past his 30 years of service but, the OT money is one of the reasons he continues to stay. Additionally, putting on a uniform and badge after all those years is a lot of your persona and for good or bad that's who he/we are.
     
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  12. Triple Taps

    Triple Taps

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    Getting your own insurance against lawsuits doesn't mean you won't get sued, nor does it mean you will always win.

    It is pretty much the same as having car insurance. You get set limits and conditions depending on the plan you have.

    Today, I would have the insurance even with the legal team. Our legal team defended employees, even if they did not follow policy exactly. It was always easier if the employee had followed policy.

    I could not fault anyone for finding a different career the way things are today. The liberals are intentionally trying to drive out good officers.

    I pray for president Trump and his family daily. Look at what all the crazy ass liberals have said and done against him, yet he continues to work hard.
    He doesn't even take a salary for himself, and he certainly does not need to put up with the liberal BS, but he cares about America.
    He is not a hireling, he believes in what is has been called to do.
     
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  13. Agonizer

    Agonizer Unmasked

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    Chicago PD?
     
  14. Flatfoot

    Flatfoot

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    Excellent article.
     
  15. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

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    I am not a leo... but in my opinion police are not quitting because its dangerous.. police are trained to deal with dangerous people and situations.. its the lack of a stabil playing field ... its the lack of public support.. it's never knowing what day you will do everything correctly and still lose your job and freedom and ability to support your family..
     
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  16. Gos

    Gos

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  17. rudutchyet

    rudutchyet

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    I'm trying to recall how the GRPD shift commander put it, something to the extent of
    "No one call us to enjoy a cook out, pool party, open house, etc. They call us because there is a problem. We see people at their worst - fights, accidents, shootings, assaults, domestics, and on and on..."

    Unless you are superman, that WILL take a toll on anyone.

    They are still held to a higher standard - but when was the last time someone tried to assault or kill you at work?

    You may have had a bad interaction at some point, it happens.

    IMHO if someone is willing to do the job, act appreciative.

    end of rant
     
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  18. Tomcat1977

    Tomcat1977 "Cynical Little me"

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    Theres always one isn't there?
     
  19. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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  20. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    From the article:
    And they don't yet realize it. They may not until it's too late, either, meaning it'll take 10 or more years to try and begin to replace the institutional experience that's going to be flooding out the doors everywhere ... and that's presuming anyone qualified is even going to be interested in tempting fate to enter the profession.

    I was talking to another couple guys yesterday. One is retired and the other is very close to when he can leave. They've been listening to other cops, as well. This desire to retire ASAP, or for younger cops to leave the profession entirely, is going to be worse than the press is allowing people to understand.

    The flood gates may not be opening. More like the dam is starting to break apart and an uncontrolled flood is about to sweep away all the progress in public safety achieved in the last 20 years.
     
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