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Mr. Awesome
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What’s your budget, in regard to ammunition, for this two hour training?
 

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Mr. Awesome
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And how many officers will be in each two hour block?
 

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My State POST either has already or soon will eliminate the revolver and shotgun training sections for basic and advanced officer training.

Hang on to the shotgun as long as you can.
 

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Farmer, House Sitter and Cook
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Remington shotgun rifle sight are barely better than what come on a basic 10/22. Horrible for police work.

I will seriously loan you my 590 if you would find it beneficial.
 

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Discussion Starter #65 (Edited)
What’s your budget, in regard to ammunition, for this two hour training?
Yet to be determined, I have not submitted my lesson plan for approval.

We have plenty of shotgun ammo stashed away that is collecting dust because so few people are qualifying with their shotguns.

I am thinking 25-40 shells per student. 25 is about where the recoil starts getting punishing, especially for inexperienced shooters. But even 40 rounds worth of drills is not very much repetition.

10-12 per two hour block.

Just enough people that I don’t have a lot of time for running drills one person at a time. I need things that can be done with everyone on the firing line at once. Maybe have time for a quick timed combat course at the end.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
My State POST either has already or soon will eliminate the revolver and shotgun training sections for basic and advanced officer training.

Hang on to the shotgun as long as you can.
We have 80 of them and they don’t get rid of anything, so I believe we will have them forever. Which is why I want to encourage their use.

Rookies aren’t allowed rifles without a rifle class and active shooter training. And that only comes about once in a blue moon and with limited numbers each session. So most have no long guns.
 

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We have 80 of them and they don’t get rid of anything, so I believe we will have them forever. Which is why I want to encourage their use.

Rookies aren’t allowed rifles without a rifle class and active shooter training. And that only comes about once in a blue moon and with limited numbers each session. So most have no long guns.
That has admin brain storming written all over it.

The guys MOST likely to be involved in or respond to, not being given the tools they need to do the job effectively due to training constraints. Imagine that.
 

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That is evidence of 'passive-aggressive' administrators who attempt to bureaucratically control things through acquisitions, budgets, staffing, training time, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #70
That is evidence of 'passive-aggressive' administrators who attempt to bureaucratically control things through acquisitions, budgets, staffing, training time, etc.
That has admin brain storming written all over it.

The guys MOST likely to be involved in or respond to, not being given the tools they need to do the job effectively due to training constraints. Imagine that.
In this case it’s laziness more than anything. Coupled with the typical “I didn’t have/need it in my day” attitude, and the fact that most admin types weren’t aggressive patrolmen to begin with.

Admin positions at my agency have a high turn over rate.

Nothing but short timers cruising through their last year or two to up their pension payout.

Nobody comes in with the intention of changing or improving anything.
 

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Unfair Facist
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I carried a 870 up front and an AR-15 and an H&K MP5 in the trunk.

But I was lucky, the Chief was a gun nut.
 

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Laziness is a version of passive-aggressive control.

Around here, 3 to 7 year people get promoted up ASAP so they can run other people's lives or do nothing. They stay around for the next 23 to 27 years.

Hell has different conference rooms for all of us.
 

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I’m looking to put together a shotgun training. We have lots of young officers with no long guns. We have unissued shotguns and little interest in acquiring one. I think the general consensus these days is shotguns are useless. Which is total crap.

Anyone got any ideas for a training class? Budget will be limited. Needs to be limited in hours and rounds required.

Anyone got any lessson plans they have put together and are willing to share?

Also interested in seeing any of y’alls current shotgun setups.

We issue 870Ps with 18” rifle sight barrels. Tag star side saddles and a hunting style carry strap. No lights and no way to properly sling it by modern standards.
If I can dig mine up, I'll get them to you. I put together a training program for our new officers that started in a classroom and then at the range followed by the 25 round state qual course.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
If I can dig mine up, I'll get them to you. I put together a training program for our new officers that started in a classroom and then at the range followed by the 25 round state qual course.
I am certainly interested in seeing what you got. Thanks.
 

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We have 80 of them and they don’t get rid of anything, so I believe we will have them forever. Which is why I want to encourage their use.
My agency stopped issuing revolvers in 1987 but I did an inventory once and we still have S&W Victory Models from WWII. Plus one nickel S&W 15-2 that was a Chief's issue in the mid 1960s. :fred:
 

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Carry my Remington 870 shorty daily. Best partner I ever had. Those double ought buck and slugs ride with me cruiser ready rain or shine and never call in sick. ;)
870 best partner I ever had too. :cop:
 
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Discussion Starter #77
My agency stopped issuing revolvers in 1987 but I did an inventory once and we still have S&W Victory Models from WWII. Plus one nickel S&W 15-2 that was a Chief's issue in the mid 1960s. :fred:
We didn’t start issuing semis until 1993-94. We still have 4 of our model 66’s we used to issue.

I actually have a set of our old leather gear, duty holster, speed loaders and pouches. I wear it to
Funerals and Memorial services with my K frame.
 

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My State POST either has already or soon will eliminate the revolver and shotgun training sections for basic and advanced officer training.

Hang on to the shotgun as long as you can.
My state doesn't do it for shotgun or revolver any more either. They do still have a qualification course for shotgun, and train all firearms instructors on it so departments can still use them. As far as revolver, the only qual we have on it is for off-duty/backup guns. The course is different than the duty gun qual course, because it's geared towards smaller weapons like a 5 shot revolver. My PD doesn't allow backup guns by policy.
 

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Discussion Starter #80
I submitted my training request for approval

They cut me down to 10 handgun rounds and 20 shotgun round per student. With a two hour time.

That’s pretty pitiful. They want me to use dummy rounds for the majority of my loading repetitions.

I guess with the current ammo situation I can’t be too upset, but it really isn’t what I was wanting to do.

I’ve had to cut it down to a bare bones nomenclature, department directives, basic operating and pistol transitions
 
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