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unfortunately my agency discontinued its shotgun program, and sadly 2 weeks ago I had to relinquish and turn in my Rem870
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I’ve gotten some good info and have a starting point. Thanks.

I also have a lot to learn. I’ve always been pretty good with a shotgun, but I’m certainly not qualified to teach an advanced level course.

I was wrong about having unissued shotguns. Apparently we have none in the vault. I’m planning to attempt to get the guys not using them to get them out of their lockers and turn them in so these younger guys without rifles can have something issued to them.
 

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My most recent LE exploits were on the Mexican border. There is a pedestrian fence that separated the borders extending a mile on either side of the Port of entry. I have been in a few “Mexican Stand-offs” with armed cartel type folks with just the fence between us. Through “testing” it was found that the only round that would successor penetrate the metal fence material and keep its relative trajectory is a 12 gauge slug. Shotguns are a great multi-tool, if you have access to one, master it.
 

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I’ll be doing the job 21 years next month and have had a rifle and shotgun in every car I drove. Mossberg 500’s and some guys run with their own shotguns, after qualifying with them. The last few years I’ve been incorporating more shotgun stuff into our annual training.
 

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My previous department we had a rifle (AR15) and shotgun (M1Super90) in the squad. My current department just the AR15 and no shotgun. I’d like to have a shotgun, but alas we don’t.
 

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My agency didn't want regular patrol officers carrying shotguns due to an incident before I started there. After years of just having a pistol, we were finally issued ARs after the Hollywood robbery. Supervisors were the only ones with shotguns, and I can't remember now if policy changed near the end of my career or not where we could carry them. I do remember that we could have personal ARs, but for some reason shotguns had to be agency owned.
 

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We are all issued 7 shot Remington 870s. We can load them however we want, so I keep mine loaded with buckshot. If I want a long gun that sends one projectile with a single pull of the trigger, I’ll use a rifle, so that’s why I keep my shotgun loaded with buckshot, just for the versatility. My theory is, on felony traffic stops, I use my shotgun. If I have to shoot through a barrier like glass into the vehicle, there is no telling where a single bullet will go, but if I send 8 pellets through there, I’m more likely to hit the threat. We are all issued rifles as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I have some great ideas so thanks a lot guys.

I also have a few thousand rounds of 8 pellet low recoil buckshot to work with. I won’t even have to acquire ammo. Some mook years ago apparently ordered 8 pellet buckshot by mistake. Directives and the state require we qual with 9 pellet buck. So the ammo hurdle is out of the way. I have a pallet of it in the supply room sitting idle.


Here’s my old gal. She was issued as a bone stock 870P with rifle sights, a tacstar side saddle, and a nylon carry strap. I hate the factory rifle sights. And the sling isn’t useable for anything but carrying it out to the car from your locker. The silver action bars is because I had to replace them years ago and we scavenged the tube from a marine magnum in the supply room.



I outfitted the rest myself.

-Wilson +1 extension
-m16 buttstock sling adapter
-Surefire Fore-end light
-Wilson oversized safety
-Factory 18” barrel with the XS low profile sights (Thanks to aippi for that one).
-hogue -2” LOP stock.

That’s fixed my biggest issues with it. The overly long LOP of thebfactiry stock, the ****ty rifle sights, and the sling.

The biggest issue now is the weight. That handy little 18” shotgun gets heavy very quickly. With my hands and forearms jacked from years of bicycle patrol it can be a lot to handle one handed from the shoulder. I’m working on rehabbing my forearm strength now. I can’t look like a weakling teaching this class.
 

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We are all issued 7 shot Remington 870s. We can load them however we want, so I keep mine loaded with buckshot. If I want a long gun that sends one projectile with a single pull of the trigger, I’ll use a rifle, so that’s why I keep my shotgun loaded with buckshot, just for the versatility. My theory is, on felony traffic stops, I use my shotgun. If I have to shoot through a barrier like glass into the vehicle, there is no telling where a single bullet will go, but if I send 8 pellets through there, I’m more likely to hit the threat. We are all issued rifles as well.
you ever shot a sloped rear window from 50 ft, without using flyte control?
 

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Currently all patrol units are mandated to carry a Remington 870 with 00 Buck. Patrol officers are also allowed to carry slug rounds but their deployment and use is extremely limited: only up to 35 yards and only in the absence of any rifle or slug certified operators. Slug operators are authorized to carry 870s with slug rounds or Benelli M4’s if they have been trained. I’m currently carrying a Benelli M4 with 1 ounce slug as well as 00 buck. This is in addition to my AR. Our patrol vehicles are equipped with racks that fit both side by side.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
slug certified operators
I’ve never heard of such a thing.

What is the required training to be slug certified?

We are mandated to carry buck in the tube, but are allowed to carry slugs on the saddle to be used in “emergency” situations where a slug would be beneficial.

I only carry one slug on my shotgun. If I grab a shotgun it’s because I want buckshot.

Most of our guys Cary the tube loaded with four buckshot and the saddle loaded with one buck and five slugs. Mainly because that’s the number you get if you grab a box of slugs and a box of buck. I prefer buckshot for my reloads and have a slug for a changeover if it’s really needed.
 

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I’ve never heard of such a thing.

What is the required training to be slug certified?
To become a member of the slug cadre, we have to go to a three day school and recertify quarterly. It’s a tough course and when I went through, there was a pretty high wash out rate due to the difficult qualification course and 100 yard target with open sights. When we are selected for the school, we have to choose between the Remington 870 or Benelli M4. We are only certified for the shotgun we pass the course with. Only those who are in the slug cadre are allowed to routinely deploy slug rounds. Most patrol officers are only allowed to deploy 00 buck.

Our rifle cadre is the same way. Only those who go through a three day school are allowed to deploy rifles. In my opinion, the slug shotgun school was harder to pass.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
To become a member of the slug cadre, we have to go to a three day school and recertify quarterly. It’s a tough course and when I went through, there was a pretty high wash out rate due to the difficult qualification course and 100 yard target with open sights. When we are selected for the school, we have to choose between the Remington 870 or Benelli M4. We are only certified for the shotgun we pass the course with. Only those who are in the slug cadre are allowed to routinely deploy slug rounds. Most patrol officers are only allowed to deploy 00 buck.

Our rifle cadre is the same way. Only those who go through a three day school are allowed to deploy rifles. In my opinion, the slug shotgun school was harder to pass.
I got your PM. I appreciate the explanation.

Did I mention that I absolutely hate the factory Remington rifle sights? They are total garbage and hitting at 100 yards with them off hand would not be easy.

Our shotgun qual requires 5 slugs off hand on a B27. At 50 and 40 yards. Not difficult to land them in the scoreable area even with a bead sight, but getting a decent grouping off hand with such a hard recoiling load is difficult for me.

That being said I slug hunted deer for years. An Arsenal in the state offers up a generous amount of permits for deer population control, but requires shotguns, no rifles.

A 20g with a cantilever mount, 4x scope and sabots is a different beast though. Can shoot 150+ yards with surprisingly rifle like accuracy.

I would be curious to know what brand and style slug y’all issue for such tough accuracy requirements.
 

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I got your PM. I appreciate the explanation.

Did I mention that I absolutely hate the factory Remington rifle sights? They are total garbage and hitting at 100 yards with them off hand would not be easy.

I would be curious to know what brand and style slug y’all issue for such tough accuracy requirements.
I would tend to agree, that meeting qualification standards with open sights and slug is difficult, and I hated the ghost ring sights on the Benelli M4. However, once I got certified, I mounted an Aimpoint Micro T1, and tend to get better accuracy.

We currently use Winchester Ranger 1 oz slug, but have found it to be lacking in accuracy beyond 50 yards. Thus, they reduced our current distance down to 75 yards for now until we settle on a more accurate slug round again. When I went the the school we were using Super X and it was a lot more accurate.

Nonetheless, with practice, Winchester Ranger slug is capable of acceptable accuracy. Here’s my target from a rainy day qualification. I was shooting high that day, but I didn’t want them to adjust might optic because I was thinking it might be weather related.

I also included our qualification course below.

CBE27E93-8760-4F23-96C4-0FD25439DEA5.jpeg


B40D6275-6B26-46FD-88B7-50292EE70B05.jpeg
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I would tend to agree, that meeting qualification standards with open sights and slug is difficult, and I hated the ghost ring sights on the Benelli M4. However, once I got certified, I mounted an Aimpoint Micro T1, and tend to get better accuracy.

We currently use Winchester Ranger 1 oz slug, but have found it to be lacking in accuracy beyond 50 yards. Thus, they reduced our current distance down to 75 yards for now until we settle on a more accurate slug round again. When I went the the school we were using Super X and it was a lot more accurate.

Nonetheless, with practice, Winchester Ranger slug is capable of acceptable accuracy. Here’s my target from a rainy day qualification. I was shooting high that day, but I didn’t want them to adjust might optic because I was thinking it might be weather related.

I also included our qualification course below.

View attachment 691438

View attachment 691440
20 rounds of slug........ouch!

We issue Federal Flite-Control reduces recoil 00 buck. 9 pellet.

They recently started buying the Federal Tru-ball slugs. Prior to that they issued the Federal 1oz LE reduces recoil foster slugs.

I haven’t really had a chance to play with the Tru-ball slugs and see what they can do yet.
 

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I've been doing this silly job since June 1989, and I've had a scattergun on patrol with me as long as I can remember.

The first agency I worked for isdued a worn out Remy 870. I used it until I could afford to buy my own. I went with the Mossy 500 because I prefer the tang safety over the crossbolt of the 870. Also because from the factory, the 500 holds 6 shells while the 870 only 4, without an add on extension.

I have 10 years to go before I can retire. I hope my Mossy can go the distance with me.
 
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