Which guide rod & spring: Buffalo Bore 220 HC FN @1200 fps?

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by Kwesi, Jan 21, 2017.

  1. Kwesi

    Kwesi

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    I've never fired this load but plan on carrying it in my G20 with KKM barrel. This is my backup when hunting feral hogs. I have a Wolf 22# spring with the metal guide rod. Do you recommend this vs the OEM captive guide rod?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  2. hschork

    hschork

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    I just purchased Wolf steel guide rod and 24lb spring for my Glock 21 converting to 45 super round which is just a little bit more energy than your 10mm round so to me 22lb spring sound about right for you.

     

  3. Kwesi

    Kwesi

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  4. cougar_ml

    cougar_ml

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    For a gen 3 or 2 the 22lb spring is probably good, just make sure to test it thoroughly first. Last thing you need is to find out it doesn't work with your load of choice out in the field. It might even work just fine without making any changes.
    If you have any issues during testing you might also want to look at getting the stiffer springs for your magazines, sometimes the slide seems to be moving too fast to be able to pick up the next round and that's where the failure comes in.

    If it's a gen 4 g20 then no changes are needed, the dual recoil spring assembly handles everything mild to wild.
     
  5. Kwesi

    Kwesi

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  6. DesertGlock20

    DesertGlock20 Semper Vigilis

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    KKM recommends a 24# spring for the heavy load 10mm's. FWIW...
     
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  7. 4Rescue

    4Rescue Where ever I go, there I am...

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    Great choice for carry aye :cheers: I'm carrying my G20 right now too and I get a kick out of having it on my hip.

    I'd go 22-24# probably 24# just to be solid/worry-free. For the Gen III I use a non-captured style rod and keep a collection of springs and it makes tuning a breeze (along with internet help hahaha). I just prefer the non-captured style for ease of changing/simplicity personally. I choose the SS version just for the added weight to balance the gun but I have factory polymer rods that are still 100% functional and I see no difference in the actual recoil impulse with the SS vs the factory plastic rods.

    What are you running this round for specifically? Bear/Big game defense? Hunting? Self defense for the 2-legged variety?
    Not to derail this into a debate over a question you didn't ask, but in reference to the load you're asking about: HC Lead boolits are a known quantity and they certainly :work", but in my experience, using my 10mm as a wilderness carry most often (and in "big bear and moose" country), the shaped, solid copper proj.'s are, IMO, the real kings of versatility in terms of penetration through thick hyde and heavy bone and still being completely devastating on smaller softer targets. I've gone completely away from HCL and if I were buying commercial ammo I'd look at the Lehigh Defense Extreme Penetrator (I think they make a 155gr) style stuff rather then Buffalo Bore/FNHCL rounds. I hand-load and have a 165 and 185gr pills that are copies of the "Xtreme penetrator" rounds (a "+" shaped boolit) running upwards of 1525fps and better and I'd swear these things could go straight through the earth and out the other side(I exaggerate of course, but they're insane what they'll go through). Mixed with some JHP's for places where I don't want a laser beam that goes straight through things I'd gladly carry the G20 with these rounds (and have) up in AK and anywhere else for that matter. I dare say these rounds would be acceptable for true "big game" areas in a last-ditch side-arm

    Enjoy the G20 mate. She's one of my all-time favorite pistols and I liken her to my old Toyota 4wd's: She may not be fancy or have a bunch of whips and jingles but it just never stops running no matter what I do and while, like most I;d prefer to do anything serious with a rifle... the G20/40 are probably the only pistols that don't make me feel quite so "undergunned", especially not now that I've dialed in my handloads. ****, sorry for the ramble, 10mm just "gets me there" HAHAHAHAHA

    Cheers

    Blue
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017
  8. Kwesi

    Kwesi

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    I carry my G20 as my backup when hunting feral hogs. I usually load 180 gr pills but thought these would be devastating up close. I too have a Wolf steel guide rod & 22# spring.
     
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  9. Taterhead

    Taterhead

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    If it were me and my Gen 3 G20 and heavy/hot loads, it would be the stock RSA without thinking twice about it.
     
  10. Kwesi

    Kwesi

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    Tater: why is the RSA a no brainer for you?
     
  11. agtman

    agtman 10mm Philosopher

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    While the Gen4 G20's' RSA appears good to go across the 10mm's energy curve, for the Gen 3's and earlier G20 models, the stock RSA is sufficient to handle a sustained diet of 10mm ammo running from average .40-level/light-n-fluffy loads (on the low-end) up to about the 10mm's upper mid-range.

    This range differs with the bullet-weight. So, for example, if it's one of the ubiquitous 180gn bullets, upper midrange is about 1250-ish fps, give or take. Above that, you need to tailor your RSA set-up if you intend to shoot the hot/full-throttle loads exclusively or, say, 90%+ of the time. If you shoot the hot stuff only once in a while, that's different.

    The key point is: the velocity/energy specs of the factory load, or handload, that you intend to shoot the most should drive your selection of the spring poundage for setting up the RSA.

    For the BB 220 HC @ 1200fps the OP referenced, I'd start with the 24lb spring and run your G20 hard to vet it for reliable functioning. That load in your gun. You can always swap down to 22lbs if needed.

    I've got a handload that pretty much duplicates the BB 220gn HC ammo. It uses SNS's 220gn FP coated HC boolits. But I load it for my G40, which uses the Gen4 double RSA, so as was said, it's already good to go.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
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  12. Benchrst

    Benchrst Ban Hamster

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    I've loaded from mild to wild for my 20.4.

    Out what I've tested - stock, 20#, & 24# - 20# seems to offer the best balance with stock mag springs.
     
  13. PRE-K

    PRE-K

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    Question about heavy springs...

    How could you NOT run a 24# spring in a 10mm with "normal" ammo (let alone Underwood or other heavy loads)?

    I ask because I run 24# Wolff springs in my 40's and 357's, and they cycle perfectly, even with "normal" ammo.

    (I know the 20 slide is heavier than a 40/357 slide, but the ammo is substantially more powerful, too)
     
  14. Benchrst

    Benchrst Ban Hamster

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    Glock designed the gun to work 17#?

    I dunno...
     
  15. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner

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    Stock is 19 pounds and when I got my G20sf I replaced the stock spring with a lone wolf standard weight spring and stainless steel Guide Rod. I run mostly plinking ammo through the gun but I've run several boxes of Underwood and Buffalo Bore 220 grain 1200 fps loads, some double tap 200 grainers, and underwood 180 grain JHP loads through the gun and the 19 pound spring works perfectly.

    I see no need with a G20 to go any heavier than a 20 pound spring unless you plan on shooting a LOT of the high pressure heavy bullet ammo.

    A G21 with a 40 Super barrel would be a different story. But I've shot enough of the 220 grain 1200 fps ammo out of my G20swf to figure that if the recoil isn't hurting my hand then it probably isn't hurting the gun either.
     
  16. Benchrst

    Benchrst Ban Hamster

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    Pretty sure the 20 ships with a 17#.

    I've been wrong before though...
     
  17. PRE-K

    PRE-K

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    With the stock RSA and target loads (regardless of model/caliber) you can literally feel the slide SLAMMING against the frame. Stock RSA's feel VERY light/soft.

    Now, if I had some bear paws for hands (that absorbed no recoil and put all the energy into the RSA), I'd understand, but I have regular hands and regular grip strength.

    I know I'm in the minority here, I just want to understand why.
     
  18. Benchrst

    Benchrst Ban Hamster

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    Maybe it's just your perception? Glocks have a pretty good reliability / durability record used as stock.

    I'm using stock mag springs and they just aren't compatible (in my gun) with a 24# RSA.

    My testing has loads all over the board, from 155s @ 850 to 200s @ 1,300, and the 20# seems to be the best balance.

    I do have a 22#, just haven't used it yet.
     
  19. Taterhead

    Taterhead

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    Sorry that I didn't notice your question until now...

    The main reason was reliability. The hotter and heavier the ammo, the more likely I encountered misfeeds with the Wolff AM spring. The slide returned too quickly to collect the next round. Ironically, the AM assembly cycled week to modest ammo just fine.

    The secondary reason was follow-up shots. That heavy forward slide return is jarring, and the rearward slide action is heavier except with the most heavy loads. Not unlike a heavily sprung work truck.

    So, my experience shows that I get 100% reliability with the stock RSA with a more favorable recoil signature.

    I gave away my Wolff RSA to one of our fellow Ten Ringers. Hopefully he's having a better experience.
     
  20. Kwesi

    Kwesi

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